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Ebay to ban the sale of Virtual items for games

- - - - - ban ebay games items sale virtual

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81 replies to this topic

#41
Silverfoot

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No brokers sponsor this site
The only sponsors we accept now are individuals or companies who aren't involved in UO


And it's a good time to mention that we're looking to add to the UOForums kitty for the April 11 hosting bill. So if you can spare $5 or $10, send it on in and help keep this site going!!
Use that "Donate to UOForums link above!!! :shocked:
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#42
Guest_Bo_*

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And, say you are in fel, and someone comes along, kills you, and for some reason your uber-weapon stays on your body instead of being insured. The PK loots the uber-weapon, then sells it on a site thru a broker. Would he be guilty of selling stolen goods? Well, if we are to be taxed for said goods, why not?


That is a very good thought. Say you bought your Hat of the Magi on Ebay and paid taxes on it, and now it gets stolen after an insurance bug, and resold. That is criminal action right there.......

#43
Mercenary

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He wouldn't be guilty of anything cause he didn't steal it from you, because it never belonged to you. EA specifically says nothing on it's servers belongs to the people, it all belongs to them. So technically you're buying and losing something that never belonged to you, so it wouldn't be a criminal offense.

The whole income thing is totally seperate from the game. If you receive money for any particular reason, that is income, and off that alone, it is taxable. There is no debate, it's pretty clear. You get money, its supposed to be taxable. Now its up to the person receiving the funds on whether or not they report it. Most people don't report every little piece of coin they receive, but if the IRS so chose, they could audit you for it.


So basically, its your own perogative on whether or not you buy something in UO for real life cash. The transaction could go through, everything could be fine, and then EA may decide to delete your item, and you can't do squat about it cause it's not yours. If EA decides to shut down UO forever, you just lost out on that 60 bucks you paid for a hat of the magi, but its what you have to accept the moment you shell out your money to someone for something neither of you will ever own.

#44
kitiara

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I want to post something on-topic but I can't stop thinking about the mana leech potatoes....

OK here's something on-topic. I just re-listed my old Atlantic vendor house for auction on eBay. It worked. No warning messages, no blocking, nothing.

Anyone wanna buy my house? Yew Moongate, Trammel - Great location! I'd gladly accept in-game gold instead of eBay :)

#45
Queen Mum

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From Slashdot: News for Nerds. Stuff that matters.

eBay Delisting All Auctions for Virtual Property

Posted by Zonk on Friday January 26, @03:39PM
from the definition-of-what-is-real dept.

The growing popularity of Massively Multiplayer games has brought the issue of ownership rights in virtual worlds, and the appropriateness of what is called 'real money transfer' (RMT) into an increasingly public light. The success of the company IGE, as well as the launch of Sony Online Entertainment's 'Station Exchange' service would seem to indicate that RMT is now an acceptable part of Massive gaming. The well-known auction site eBay has recently made a policy decision that may throw these assumptions into a different light. Following up on a rumour that's been going around I spoke today with a media representative for the company, who confirmed that eBay is now delisting all auctions for 'virtual artifacts' from the site. This includes currency, items, and accounts/characters; not even the 'neopoints' used in the popular Neopets service is exempt from this decision. Read on below for the company's rationale for this decision, and a few words on the impact this could have on future RMT sales.

Mr. Hani Durzy, speaking for eBay, explained that the decision to pull these items was due to the 'legal complexities' surrounding virtual property. "For the overall health of the marketplace" the company felt that the proper course of action, after considerable contemplation, was to ban the sale of these items outright. While he couldn't give me a specific date when the delistings began, he estimated that they've been coming down for about a month or so. Mr. Durzy pointed out that in reality, the company is just now following through with a pre-existing policy, as opposed to creating a new one. The policy on digitally delivered goods states: "The seller must be the owner of the underlying intellectual property, or authorized to distribute it by the intellectual property owner." Given the nebulous nature of ownership in online games, eBay has decided the prudent decision is to remove the possibility for players to sell what might be the IP of other parties via their service. Mr. Durzy made it a point to say that initial listings of virtual property would not have punitive actions. Their assumption, he said, is that most users break with policies because they're unaware of them, rather than maliciously. Initial infractions will result in a delisting of items, and an attempt to educate the user on the policy. Persistent disregard for the policies, of course, will result in a removal of the seller's account.

We've spoken before on the possibility of taxation of virtual goods in the U.S. and abroad, as well as the economic impact these sales can have. With the removal of a very popular, very public source of virtual currency and goods from the market, what does this mean for the future of RMT? Will small businessmen who previously worked via eBay now turn to larger independent sites like IGE? Given that eBay is ipso facto declaring virtual goods to be the property of the game makers and not the players who 'earn' them, what does this mean for the future of virtual rights in general?


*just a little a fyi :)

#46
Terrance

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eBay can go jump off a cliff. I'll simply go to the broker sites to buy gold or items, which I do since I refuse to make peerless bosses and gold farming my end-game.

eBay has the worst way of treating their users, sellers and bidders alike. It's turning into little more than a fleamarket version of Amazon with moves like this.

"It isn't over. Your footprints will never fade from Britannia. You shaped
a world of rich treasures and virtuous character. Children who idolized
you have grown into men and women who seek to walk your path.
That's your legacy, Lord British. It's a marvelous thing."


#47
Adri

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He wouldn't be guilty of anything cause he didn't steal it from you, because it never belonged to you. EA specifically says nothing on it's servers belongs to the people, it all belongs to them. So technically you're buying and losing something that never belonged to you, so it wouldn't be a criminal offense.

The whole income thing is totally seperate from the game. If you receive money for any particular reason, that is income, and off that alone, it is taxable. There is no debate, it's pretty clear. You get money, its supposed to be taxable. Now its up to the person receiving the funds on whether or not they report it. Most people don't report every little piece of coin they receive, but if the IRS so chose, they could audit you for it.


So basically, its your own perogative on whether or not you buy something in UO for real life cash. The transaction could go through, everything could be fine, and then EA may decide to delete your item, and you can't do squat about it cause it's not yours. If EA decides to shut down UO forever, you just lost out on that 60 bucks you paid for a hat of the magi, but its what you have to accept the moment you shell out your money to someone for something neither of you will ever own.


news article

The brisk real-life trade generated in the $3.4 billion online game industry has drawn the attention of a U.S. congressional committee, which is investigating whether the virtual assets and virtual incomes should be taxed.



#48
Terrance

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Heh, this is why I don't vote...

"It isn't over. Your footprints will never fade from Britannia. You shaped
a world of rich treasures and virtuous character. Children who idolized
you have grown into men and women who seek to walk your path.
That's your legacy, Lord British. It's a marvelous thing."


#49
Adam

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ebay finally got back to me

Dear Adam,

Thank you for writing eBay in regard to selling virtual items. We
appreciate you taking the time to investigate eBay policy and how it may
affect the sale of your item.

eBay policy doesn't allow the sale of online virtual gaming items,
including game accounts, game characters, game currency, game points or
other similar game items. Although you may have sold similar items in
the past, future listings of such items will not be permitted.

As always, our goal is to keep the eBay marketplace a safe place to buy
and sell. Please understand that violations of eBay policy may result in
a range of actions, including listing cancellation, limits on account
privileges, account suspension, forfeit of eBay fees on cancelled
listings, and loss of PowerSeller status.

I encourage you to read the information available in our Help Topics
about why we restrict certain items from the eBay site. Please visit:

http://pages.ebay.co...wnloadable.html


Thank you for your time.

Sincerely,
xxxxxxxx

eBay Customer Support
Trust and Safety Operations



#50
Tabbitha

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Thanks for clearing the hype up Adam.There is also more evidence here

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#51
Aalladorn

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I know many games starting up as well as established games have had huge probs with farmers takin over areas needed by players to sell items/cash online. They have been a bane of many games causing issues with new and old players alike; RFO had to be about the worse case I ever saw. The biggest part of this issue is the folks that buy game currency/special items for real cash!! Gettin rid of these company players helps better the game play. Having said this; I still believe a player should be able to sell their account to recoupe some of the money they invested into the game when they move on. (damned old memory, what the hell do they call these company/professional farmer type players for short? "sheesh") Just my 2 cents :-/
No matter where you go there you are :huh:

#52
Tabbitha

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I still believe a player should be able to sell their account to recoupe some of the money they invested into the game when they move on.

Have to agree with that.I too see nothing wrong with an account being sold on.

The selling of individual virtual items though to make gold for yourself rl, definately NOT.

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#53
kitiara

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What's the difference between selling an account with all of its virtual items, and selling the items? Really, both violate the idea that you and I as players don't actually OWN any of it. Following the logic that the gaming companies are applying, everything that resides on the game servers is their intellectual property, and our monthly subscription fees are basically to lease login credentials to access their property.

If you believe that, would you consider purchasing login credentials for cash - even if you don't own any of the items those credentials give you access to?

I think it's really an all-or-nothing proposition. You either buy into the idea that we don't own any of it and therefore CAN NOT do with the items what we please, or that by earning these items in game we DO get the right to claim ownership of them, and therefore have the right to sell them for cash if desired.

I don't think you can say you agree with the gaming companies and then also believe it to be OK to sell accounts. The two ideas fundamentally contradict each other.

#54
DiP

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I agree with you Kit.

If you plan on quitting, quit. "Making up for the cost" does not make sense since playing the game is what you paid for, not the items within. So in essense, you are selling the game as if it were your own, which it is not.

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#55
kitiara

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Dip - Exactly. We're paying to lease play time - we're paying for an experience, not for the items contained within the experience.

(That said, I will be sad to see eBay go, as I have no shame in saying I've purchased transfer tokens and houses and even a runebook library there!)

#56
oliveryochest

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i actually like the fact that ebay is gonna ban Online game items.
make some ppl work to get the items now

#57
Vectus

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i actually like the fact that ebay is gonna ban Online game items.
make some ppl work to get the items now


They have been saying that for years but they never do because they make so much money off it. They are just saying what these guys want to hear.

#58
Mercenary

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The way I see it, UO is a hobby that doesn't produce something you can actual own, but more of just entertainment value. Kinda how people pay someone to ride a roller coaster, or visit a theme park. If you think of UO as a theme park, and your monthly fee as your ticket to access the park, the enjoyment you receive out of what you're doing is what you pay for.

People shouldn't expect to make money off the fun they've had over the years. People should accept the fact that they invested their own time/money into something they wanted to do, had a great time doing it, and then one day when they decide to quit, they should be happy with the time they've spent and leave it at that.

All just my own opinion of course, and obviously it stems further than that because of the way items/account age and characters affect the worth of the time people put in, but honestly, I think there's something amiss if people think they deserve to be compensated for the time they put into a game they liked to play. :)

#59
Aalladorn

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I guess I neeed to clarify my response. RMT farmers are out there taking advantage of the item/currency for real cash market. They have a real detremental effect on the gaming experience. As for taxing them; they come from all over the world. Taxing US based companies would just make them move outside the country. I feel (after paying taxes for the last 40 years) these folks should pay their share; The middle class has enough financial pressure on them.>:(
If Congress comes up with a way to tax all internet trade coming in/out the US and enforcing it; won't we all lose out on the savings gained from Internet shopping?
Do you really think Ebay will go through with this?
No matter where you go there you are :huh:

#60
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just went on ebay - they have 9 listings for napa.
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