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Current state of injustice with shard voting

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41 replies to this topic

#1
SugarSmacks

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I am sure everyone has noticed by now, how couldn't you? Everyone is voting everywhere.

The same guy voting 100 times in Britain Atlantic stops by Britain Great Lakes to recast the same 100 votes.

 

But this isn't supposed to be an issue?

How can the same guy vote on every shard in the same city? Does that even make sense? How?

 

How can the same group of people being able to control every city in the game a good thing?

How can you possibly encourage use of a system where everything is obviously one sided?

 

I would have thought bringing it up on Ultima's official boards would have encouraged something other than total deleting of the post and forcing their view upon you. But apparently I was mistaken so lets start that hot conversation here.

Why? Because I see a huge opportunity to talk about some of these issues where a whole lot of people have something to say and no one is being allowed to speak.

What good are forums where no one is allowed to talk? Sounds like its time for a change to me.



#2
Kayhynn

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I'm not extremely familiar with the system - I don't really participate in it as there's no real reason to on Origin.

 

However, it seemed like the system was geared towards Roleplayers and others decided to grief the system - at least that's what it's sounding like.  Yet, as I've read on the other forum as well as here - people are working together to try and defeat the people who want to be "govenors".

 

LEt me ask this?  Why is it important to be the governor as a game mechanic.  Back when I cared about roleplay and such, it wasn't a game mechanic.  You roleplayed it out.  Can't it not be the same way and just ignore what the "griefers" are doing?  Fighting back they way they're griefing you doesn't solve the problem either.



#3
Guido

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In this day and age, it's fairly easy to verify voter fraud.  I'd suggest you post some sort of evidence - say, screen shots, logs, etc.

 

We welcome (almost) any conversation.  We caution against mere accusation.  Also keep in mind that we won't allow ourselves to be used as some sort of proxy to espouse personal issues with Stratics or Petra.  Stratics isn't the official forums for UO - just the more commonly used of the 2 fansites, and Petra doesn't tend to censor posts for no reason - as a matter of fact, she states that her primary issue was a lack of proof, and from her wording, I'm going to guess that some of the posts were either inflammatory, or contained language you wouldn't use in front of your grandmother.   Not necessarily your posts in particular, but posts on the topic in general.

 

Again, we welcome (almost) any conversation, and are a bit more permissive on some topics - but that only goes so far.  For example, direct accusations require direct proof.

 

Welcome to UOF.  The other non-official forums of Ultima Online.


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#4
Vivian Fellows

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One: Ultima doesn't have official boards. If you are talking about Stratics, it is because a thread on this topic was already locked for the flame war it started, thus causing the topic to be eternally closed on Stratics. This is the rules of Stratics, and people have figured out that the best way to kill a topic they don't agree with there is to start a flame war.

 

Two: The story of a guy voting 100 times in Britain on Atlantic are not true. It is an urban legend. Yes, there are five or six whales out there with 50-75 accounts, but the 100 vote whale is fantasy. How do I know? Cause I know the person in question where the story originally started in the previous election and he only has around 70 accounts.

 

Three: He doesn't have to vote in the same city on every shard. If he voted in Britain on Atlantic, he could vote in Yew on Sonoma. The rule has been one vote per shard, per account for two elections. My likeliest guess, this is because a lot of people play on a couple of shards, and Broadsword is of course hesitant of being heavy  handed and limiting people to one shard.

 

Four: Same group of people do not control every city in the game. I play Great Lakes and dabble time to time on Atlantic, so I can tell you the people that control Britain on Atlantic are very much different than the ones who control it on Great Lakes.



#5
Kayhynn

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So here's a question - not sure if it's a valuable solution or not:  Would changing it to one vote on a normal production shard where you have a house and a vote on Siege/Izumo (wherever you have a house) work?



#6
Vivian Fellows

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So here's a question - not sure if it's a valuable solution or not:  Would changing it to one vote on a normal production shard where you have a house and a vote on Siege/Izumo (wherever you have a house) work?

 

Would work for me, but to be honest I think it is going to anger a lot of the players on Atlantic. Most of the population on Atlantic now is not native. Well, most is strong, but a majority of them have migrated from another shard. So Broadsword walks a fine line of angering their most populated shard.

 

I personally thought the solution offered by several players of limiting it to characters that have only met a certain time limit of having been played (aka a "voting age") would be the most even handed. That way if someone wants to vote on what is now their main on Atlantic, but also wants to vote on Catskills on the character they played for eight years before, so be it.



#7
Kayhynn

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The only thing I think that solution would lead to is people sitting their characters in luna, afk, to build up time.



#8
Vivian Fellows

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LEt me ask this?  Why is it important to be the governor as a game mechanic.  Back when I cared about roleplay and such, it wasn't a game mechanic.  You roleplayed it out.  Can't it not be the same way and just ignore what the "griefers" are doing?  Fighting back they way they're griefing you doesn't solve the problem either.

 

 

Ooo I meant to reply to this part as well. I think the problem for the people I know involved, that being Willa of the Yew Wood, would be how Blackthorn would treat her. What helped allow the RPrs to ignore griefers prior is that they have this fantasy world they've built around the game. With the EMs having returned and Blackthorn now actively among the populace, he can slice through that fantasy bubble like a hot knife through butter. What I am trying to say is, the EM playing Blackthorn is forced to recognize the governor as leadership over anyone else for that city. It would break poor Willa's heart if she had to sit there and watch Blackthorn sit silent while someone who wants to grief her mocks her from the Yew governor seat.



#9
Kayhynn

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I guess, I would hope, that the EMs playing certain characters would have fingers on the pulse of the game and know what's happening and in turn play how it's supposed to be played, not how players are griefing the system.

 

I also would hope EMs wouldn't play favorites - but I know better there too.



#10
Pandora_CoD

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It should be one vote per shard on the shard you have your primary house in because let's face it that's really your primary shard.  Voting age should be a minimum of 12 months of consecutive subscriptions.


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#11
Kayhynn

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 Voting age should be a minimum of 12 months of consecutive subscriptions.

 

I'll disagree wtih this one whole-heartedly.  Especially with the issues EA has with their billing. No way in hell.  No offense.


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#12
Lord Chaos

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Stratics is the official forum for UO. This is evident by the big button on uo.com where normally an officially run UO forum would be. We cannot interfere with how stratics run their forum, other than concerns in their capacity as official forum. We did have a forum for these things, but it was quickly misused by people and has been removed.

 

Sadly there's little reason to go anywhere else, now that they've scrapped the fansite questions.

 

As for the voting issue.

 

There should be a time limit. Maybe 3-6 months. Then at least they would have a paid interest and not just a throwaway trial account. What would a newbie who has only played the game for 3-6 months need to vote? You can't get many vet rewards unless you pay for many years, so why should you get votes for free?



#13
SugarSmacks

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I fail to see how letting a person vote In the same city across multiple shards help anyone.

 

I enjoy how you feel these roleplayer people will never do wrong.

Oh how wrong you are.

 

But I will enjoy posting multiple ICQ''s I have been saving of things that should have never been sent to me.

 

Remember you asked for it.



#14
Kayhynn

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I fail to see how letting a person vote In the same city across multiple shards help anyone.

 

I enjoy how you feel these roleplayer people will never do wrong.

Oh how wrong you are.

 

But I will enjoy posting multiple ICQ''s I have been saving of things that should have never been sent to me.

 

Remember you asked for it.

 

No where did I support letting them vote in the same city across multiple shards as helping.  I suggested it be limited to their primary shard and a Siege-based shard.  That way if they have a house on both shards, that's their home shard, that's where they should be voting.  All of that being said - at this time - allowing people to help those who are being griefed across shards is probably a good thing.  It's a way to counteract it - but it's a bandaid when the system really needs stitches.

 

Also - I never said the roleplayer peoples aren't doing anything wrong.  Not sure where you picked that up from, but I know it's not from me.  That being said, the city voting system is definitely targeted towards roleplayers which had established city rulership long before the EMs took interest in it.  The fact that people are griefing the system in general is abhorrant - whether it be roleplayers or regular players.



#15
SugarSmacks

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EDIT to a spoiler because of bad language.

 

Spoiler



#16
SugarSmacks

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he claims to have voted with 120 accounts

remember you asked for it

 

By the way he says he pvps but he really sucks at it

How do you tell? He avoids every 1v1 known to man

 

Hey remember 5 posts ago how the roleplayers were getting picked on by their word without proof.

Hey look its proof they are the problem.

UH OHS

 

btw

I got more icq logs most people wouldn't believe

These are conversations I was told "did not happen" and " I am a liar", right right

 

All Stratics did when I tried to show them proof was delete then ban



#17
Kayhynn

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Just curious - I read through the post and understand, I am a real life reporter so I tend to read things very deeply - but no where could I peg him as a roleplayer.   So I'm not sure how this is proving RPers are part of the problem.

 

And yes, there have been a number of posts here and on Stratics regarding people who are immitating those who are running for office and trying to confuse voting, voting for the "not-real" person, etc.  There's pretty much proof of that if you look who's running and see the names and guild names are similar, but not identical.

 

Also - I never believe what anyone says.  Someone bragging they have 120 accounts isn't the same thing as them actually having them.  Most people mouth off, exaggerate their numbers.  It sounds like he has you confused with someone else and really dislikes you, or who he thinks you are, and is trying to cause you stress and drama -- that much is obvious by his posts.    And seeing as he seems to really dislike you, or your guild, or whoever is causing him to mouth off, I'd say his stuff isn't 100% true.  Please don't misconstrue that - I know what he said to you.  I'm just saying what he said, even if he said it, may not be true.

 

I am curious - is it possible to see how many people vote in each election?



#18
SugarSmacks

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First off I would have never have believed that many votes from one player had a I not witnessed a flood and I mean flood of newbie players voting at the stone.

I watched as the numbers went up as they voted it literally was 100 deep, hard to believe but very real.

And yes you can watch the stones votes and people vote to determine their vote.

 

Myth was brought in by Dot Warner and the roleplayer community on Great Lakes to rig the election.

I am sure he will deny this to pieces and no he isn't stupid enough to have ever icqed anyone I know.

 

But had you watched general chat during this time period it would be more than apparent what had happened.

This conversation was visible on Atlantic as they fished for votes shard to shard.

He also just so happened to cast every vote for this guy.

 

One could also witness him and Nails Warstein claiming they had 100 votes for sale in Atlantic general chat that they would vote on the shard or place you desire for correct payment.



#19
Guido

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Ok - just a general notice.

 

I am NOT going to close this thread, or censor it.  I am going to state, however, that what's being offered is not, in any way, proof.  I could have produced ANY of it in a text editor.

 

Any more accusations, and there will need to be screen shots, including some kind of screen shot from ICQ or a compatible program, UO, etc - if you want to protect your own identity, that's fine, but I will expect some proof of ID of BOTH parties via PM, and within 1 hour of the post.  Otherwise, I will be forced to take administrative action that will make the participants unhappy.  I'm sorry if this bothers people, but we cannot have unsubstantiated 'rumors' being posted here.


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#20
Vivian Fellows

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One: Mithyrl Elves is not a roleplayer. He is not and he also plays on Atlantic... So I don't know why you are tying Mithyrl Elves to the roleplayers of Great Lakes. All he did was vote for someone other than Superspot because he does not like DC.

 

Two: Mith barely has 50 accounts. The fact you guys keep falling for him saying he has 100+ just shows how little is known of the situation on your end.

 

Three: Why is DC so mad about Mithyrl Elves? Mith quit playing GL years ago... You awoke the beast, not anyone else on GL. DC was losing the election in December, DC went and tried to buy votes on Atlantic. This royally upset Mith and several others that play on Atlantic. The funny thing is, if DC hadn't gone to Atlantic to buy votes, they probably would have won the election in December because the people voting for Dot had already blown most of their voting wad.

 

Four: I don't know why you are coming to these forums and crying wolf over Mithyrl Elves smacking you with his accounts when DC was outright targeting Dot Warner with harassment. You should be happy this didn't end with the person attached to that account banned (which may still happen as Broadsword has said they are investigating the person).