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Would anyone agree to RP-PVP restrictions?

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22 replies to this topic

#1
Palin

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Since I am trying to get some RP-PVP going on Pacific I am just curious if anyone would agree to restrictions for RP-PVP (not affecting PVM in any way) in order to have more balanced PVP while roleplaying?

For example: Whenever I have made an RP guild, I have used armor and weapon restrictions not just for realism, but for if we go and PVP another guild similar to our own... These are what the SAGE bagball and capture the flag tournaments were like, only this wouldn't take place during tournaments..

I am not saying guilds should just go and put restrictions on all their members, but would there be those willing to put restrictions on themselves on their own for a more fun RP-PVP experience?

Currently I have stock piles of non-runic armor and weapons crafted and I don't know what to do with it unless I really get a guild started where I can use it.. If I decide I can't find any use for it, I will trash it all.. I have always been fond of creating army-like guilds though that dons uniforms, it's just logic when it comes to roleplaying an army-like guild, but it is also pointless if you are fighting people who have armor and weapons 100x better than what you have..

#2
Asbjorn

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The problem I have with GM made weapons and armor is that it is a hold back to the days of old. Any blacksmith now adays almost always knows how to imbue the armour to make it lighter stronger and take less of a toll on the physical being of the person wearing it. And offer more protection to said individual.

You can have any role play suit of armor you want with whatever bonuses you want. I have said it before no one wants a return to the classic UO more than me. But the fact of the matter is armor creation is almost as much a part of character design as your skill set.

Also no longer are the days where a few could have a reasonable suit of armor. If you collect the ingredients myself and a few others are more than happy to build a suit when we have time. Usually at little or no cost.


To put it another way. In an all gm non imbued armor world. You are still giving up survival against a human in gm made samurai armor which comes with the mage armor property and fits nicely with the human joat bonus. Or to an elf in gm made bloodwood armour which comes with a random property like hci ss dci mage armour or luck. Why wouldnt my character who has faced demon invaders, shadowlords, and all other sorts of nasties use any means of survival he can.

I used to be all for the restrictions of bag ball and capture the flag tournaments. But I realized they were trying to hold on to the past. And the past is past.

#3
Palin

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Gone are the days of any PVP involved tournaments as well, which is a real shame.. I talked with Cap about bringing it back.. I would still like to see the restrictions in place for it still though if SAGE started doing them again for balanced purposes, but that is just me.. I think it is something that would need to be put to a vote if it came back in time.. Also, people wouldn't need to be worried about being looted or having to worry about insurance..

To put it another way. In an all gm non imbued armor world. You are still giving up survival against a human in gm made samurai armor which comes with the mage armor property and fits nicely with the human joat bonus. Or to an elf in gm made bloodwood armour which comes with a random property like hci ss dci mage armour or luck. Why wouldnt my character who has faced demon invaders, shadowlords, and all other sorts of nasties use any means of survival he can.

Well as roleplayers we generally seem to ignore in game mechanic, so having the most uber & l33t gear you can possibly have shouldn't be a factor in our roleplaying when it comes to a means of survival..

I don't have a problem with imbuing mage armor & lrc and what not onto weapons or armor either, it doesn't give them any bonuses, although it's a little unrealistic for a mage in heavy armor to go around casting spells.. The key to roleplaying is realism though, and content, without it content, we can never spark enough interest..

I think perhaps starting a few guilds with the idea in mind should be implemented, side guilds we could run, recruit for, come up with a RoE and try to spark interest.. I have always imagined UO from a historical and politically accurate viewpoint, as if you opened up a history book and there it was, what would UO be like if it had existed in real life? It would be a hard world to live in, it would be dark and very harsh and not easy, people would be forming militias and and farmers with pitchforks and torches would be taking up arms to defend their lands from enemy and there would be holy wars going on, you would have greedy loyalists trying to force treaties on others and people forming rebellions against them...

#4
Asbjorn

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Well as roleplayers we generally seem to ignore in game mechanic, so having the most uber & l33t gear you can possibly have shouldn't be a factor in our roleplaying when it comes to a means of survival..



As roleplayes we make realism out of the fantasy mechanics and lore of the world we are given. I watched a documentry the other day about ninjas. They would soak their face mask in antiseptic to use as a bandage if they were cut. Isn't that a form of hit point regeneration? Can't my gargoyle crafter space the metal plates a little farther apart to allow more venting to assist in stamina regeneration? What about etching magical runes into some sleeves to take the place of regents? Spikes and blades added to the outside of the armor to make reflect physical damage. The point being in the fantasy world we make realism out of what we have.


Honestly I don't think we will generate any interest if we keep trying to stop people from doing what makes their character special.

#5
Asbjorn

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I have always imagined UO from a historical and politically accurate viewpoint, as if you opened up a history book and there it was, what would UO be like if it had existed in real life? It would be a hard world to live in, it would be dark and very harsh and not easy, people would be forming militias and and farmers with pitchforks and torches would be taking up arms to defend their lands from enemy and there would be holy wars going on, you would have greedy loyalists trying to force treaties on others and people forming rebellions against them...



That is well and great but the lore of Ultima states that there were people who used fantastic magics. There was even a spaceship that crash landed at one point.
And the beauty of Ultima Online is that you can be a commoner if you so choose to. But remember for the most part everyone is the fantastic main character in someone elses tale.

#6
Asbjorn

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I think I need to re-iterate. I am not against getting more RP-PVP going. I am right there with you on that. I would like to see some more individual, group, or guild conflicts. Was hoping that you would re-arm your orc after the orc guild became alliance members last night. Any of your characters or anyones characters are more than welcome to start a conflict with my characters at anytime. If I lose I will role play it out and accept the loss. But I dont believe that we should place restrictions on how people fight.

#7
Palin

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As roleplayes we make realism out of the fantasy mechanics and lore of the world we are given. I watched a documentry the other day about ninjas. They would soak their face mask in antiseptic to use as a bandage if they were cut. Isn't that a form of hit point regeneration? Can't my gargoyle crafter space the metal plates a little farther apart to allow more venting to assist in stamina regeneration? What about etching magical runes into some sleeves to take the place of regents? Spikes and blades added to the outside of the armor to make reflect physical damage. The point being in the fantasy world we make realism out of what we have.


I don't think you know where I am coming from.. I said we ignore game mechanics in UO... My character is never gonna go up and someone and be like "Oh I have %25 physical damage increase!" It doesn't work like that in terms of RP, that is unrealistic.. I don't strive to get the best weapons and armors because of that... I am going to just spend hours trying to get the best possible equipment I can get, it doesn't make sense for me to do it from a RP perspective, the way I see it, all armor and weapons are the same.. There is no such thing as percentages, nobodys armor can be better than anyone else' same goes with their weapons and shields, it makes it much more realistic to not look at those percentages on our weapons and armor, it shouldn't exist when it comes to roleplaying.. If your armor is on fire, I hope there is a good RP excuse for it.. Poisoning is an example, should someone with zero poisoning skill be spamming poisoning in PVP with a poisoned blade? Probably not, but the game mechanics allows one to do it..

#8
Palin

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I think I need to re-iterate. I am not against getting more RP-PVP going. I am right there with you on that. I would like to see some more individual, group, or guild conflicts. Was hoping that you would re-arm your orc after the orc guild became alliance members last night. Any of your characters or anyones characters are more than welcome to start a conflict with my characters at anytime. If I lose I will role play it out and accept the loss. But I dont believe that we should place restrictions on how people fight.


So if someone say attacks me with a greater dragon which are impossible to kill for the most part, you wouldn't have a problem with it?

Also when it comes to fighting.. Few tips.. Instead of pretending that our characters are dying and turning into ghosts that "oOooOooOo" that just need a res, why not pretend that they are injured our unconscious?

So the rule would be.. If you get knocked unconscious (killed) in character, then you are considered injured In that time you must keep your death robe on. You may not join the battle, or do any other demanding actions in character. You may RP being injured, and as such talk with others, but you may not help or interfere with any ongoing battle in any way. You can not log in a different character to rejoin a battle. Would be a good rule and those wearing a death robe wouldn't be allowed to be attacked..

Rping before attacking anyone should also be a must.. ntentions for attack must be made clear. Make sure your opponents are logged in, at their keyboard, and aware they are about to come under attack. Before attacking, make sure you give a short warning; “Halt!” “Have at you”, "You are under arrest", etc, and make sure they react to it. Each combatant has only one life. Once you have fallen you may not re-enter the battle. It would make sense..

Pets should only have one life, and when killed they can not rejoin the battle. If the tamer dies before the pet, the tamer should not continue to give the pet orders or participate in battle in any way.

And absolutely no looting would be allowed, everyone would get the chance to loot their items and RP being injured..

These would be good rules and guidelines to follow when it comes to RP-PVP, a lot of the players in the RP alliance are casual gamers and it would probably make people feel they could be more involved if we made it casual for them using a few guidelines to follow..

Just a thought..

#9
Asbjorn

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I don't think you know where I am coming from.. I said we ignore game mechanics in UO... My character is never gonna go up and someone and be like "Oh I have %25 physical damage increase!" It doesn't work like that in terms of RP, that is unrealistic.. I don't strive to get the best weapons and armors because of that... I am going to just spend hours trying to get the best possible equipment I can get, it doesn't make sense for me to do it from a RP perspective, the way I see it, all armor and weapons are the same.. There is no such thing as percentages, nobodys armor can be better than anyone else' same goes with their weapons and shields, it makes it much more realistic to not look at those percentages on our weapons and armor, it shouldn't exist when it comes to roleplaying.. If your armor is on fire, I hope there is a good RP excuse for it.. Poisoning is an example, should someone with zero poisoning skill be spamming poisoning in PVP with a poisoned blade? Probably not, but the game mechanics allows one to do it..


You missed my point one hundred percent. Just because I the person behind the screen see and add a percentage value doesn't mean there isn't a role playing explanation for it. As a seasoned warrior I would choose to buy or have built the lightest possible armor. As the person behind the screen I see yeah I want some stamina increase. It is the same concept as how do you put it in game "Speaking over the winds"? Behind the screen I know you are talking in guild chat. But I roleplay that you are unrealistically communicating through some mystical force. There is a mundane explanation for almost any modification to any piece of equipment. Some of them yes do have to be a little fantasized but that is ok. I log in to suspend disbelief of the real world.

As for your poisoning example. As long as someone with poisoning skill applyed the poison to the blade I am perfectly fine with that. Because as far as I know to apply any amount of poison to a blade not to stick someone with the blade takes success in poisoning. And as far as I know only the most skilled poisoners have a knowledge of how the deadliest poisons work. It doesnt take skill with poisoning to stick someone with a knife.

#10
Capricorn

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Hi just one thing greater dragon can be killed. It was part the test all the knights did and did it on foot it was a fully trained gd. If you need help making the gear you need to fight just ask we have craftspeople in the game that would make it for you

#11
Asbjorn

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So if someone say attacks me with a greater dragon which are impossible to kill for the most part, you wouldn't have a problem with it?

Also when it comes to fighting.. Few tips.. Instead of pretending that our characters are dying and turning into ghosts that "oOooOooOo" that just need a res, why not pretend that they are injured our unconscious?

So the rule would be.. If you get knocked unconscious (killed) in character, then you are considered injured In that time you must keep your death robe on. You may not join the battle, or do any other demanding actions in character. You may RP being injured, and as such talk with others, but you may not help or interfere with any ongoing battle in any way. You can not log in a different character to rejoin a battle. Would be a good rule and those wearing a death robe wouldn't be allowed to be attacked..

Rping before attacking anyone should also be a must.. ntentions for attack must be made clear. Make sure your opponents are logged in, at their keyboard, and aware they are about to come under attack. Before attacking, make sure you give a short warning; “Halt!” “Have at you”, "You are under arrest", etc, and make sure they react to it. Each combatant has only one life. Once you have fallen you may not re-enter the battle. It would make sense..

Pets should only have one life, and when killed they can not rejoin the battle. If the tamer dies before the pet, the tamer should not continue to give the pet orders or participate in battle in any way.

And absolutely no looting would be allowed, everyone would get the chance to loot their items and RP being injured..

These would be good rules and guidelines to follow when it comes to RP-PVP, a lot of the players in the RP alliance are casual gamers and it would probably make people feel they could be more involved if we made it casual for them using a few guidelines to follow..

Just a thought..


All of these are good points. Except the restrictions on tamers. If a tamer has to vet his pet he is already out of the fight for a bit. If the tamer and his pet die he is out of the fight for even longer. Greater dragons are not that tough. And if a greater and its tamer do get me I shouldnt have been out alone or atleast ran for safety. You had a post somewhere detailing rules of engagement that were inplace on I think atlantic. Which I believe is what these here are from. I think they are great for the most part

#12
Palin

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Hi just one thing greater dragon can be killed. It was part the test all the knights did and did it on foot it was a fully trained gd. If you need help making the gear you need to fight just ask we have craftspeople in the game that would make it for you


How much will this cost me for all my guild members?

#13
Asbjorn

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Not a cent. It can be done with equipment found off monsters. You do agree that you will need some armor and a weapon to go against a dragon right? Or if you want to wait for me to do it right I provide the raw materials and gems and all I ask is that you provide the essences and fragments. Which can be found looted off monsters even low level ones if you choose to rp it out fully. I can even help you decide whether you want the one that allows you to breath and move more easily or whether you want the one stuffed with willow bark to help keep your strength up.

#14
Kahlan

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Umm I think you should just have Akasha make everyone a l33t suit for the uniforms of the army... anyone who wanted to roleplay as an army type would all be able to wear the same gear and she would become the greatest imbuer on the shard!=)=)=)

#15
Asbjorn

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Jern Lille's armor has a legacy of quality that reaches back through 4 generations. And on a side not. I hear Akasha skirts armor regulations by using only half the required leather strapping. The rest she makes up with rope. Can you really trust your safety to that kind of half shod quality?

#16
Haddy G

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Some RP-PVP sounds like alot of fun.I'm in when I get back, less than 60 days now. :)
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

#17
Fargo

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Hello Pacific players.
I read your thread with interest and thought you might like to look at how Europa manages RP-PvP...

http://www.uoforums....gement-roe.html

These rules are the culmination of many years debate and discussion by minds far superior to my own, but they work consistantly, as far as I know. Personally I don't like to get my hands dirty and try to remain above the fray.

#18
Palin

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Europa, I love it, but have a hard time playing there with a intense ping due to my location, i get extreme lag on Europa, which forced me to leave the shard, I also had too many characters I was trying to play at once, so I leveled it down to a couple and I don't have the time for it that I use to have, so I focus simply on one main charater there now and a few alts..

The thing about Pacific RP right now is that we have this big RP alliance with just a few actual roleplayers, the guilds recruited all the players they could, didn't mattered if they roleplayed or not, just to get members..

It's also a very high fantasy RP shard, where Europa is very low fantasy, this isn't a shard where you can go to a tavern and find people, they are all over, in Luna trading wares, champion spawns, etc, there is really a very few that like to create conflicts and stories here on Pacific..

I am in a guild called RSB(Rangers of Skara Brae) which I joined my first day back to Pacific, the guild leader at the time, Robin, went on a recruiting spree and we had a revived the guild to its former glory. I couldn't refuse his offering of me joining RSB and eventually becoming the "Senior Captain" of RSB.. I turned this down though so I could help run other guilds and we elected someone else as the Senior Captain.. Robin is probably the nicest guy you could meet in UO.. He would make full sets of armor for all of our members, we made sure our members knew how to roleplay as a ranger and taught them the ropes of roleplaying and how to RP as a ranger.. My whole purpose of being on Pacific has been RSB, which is a 100% roleplaying guild, we usually do not leave character and we're the only RP guild in Felucca..

Inactivity has taken its toll however and Robin has vanished due to real life health issues, I wish I could hear from him, doubt he will be back to UO and really all I want to do is carry on his mantle, I do not have the requirements however to do so and I felt my purpose on Pacific had ended..

With RSB coming to an end, I feel it is necessary now for me to do something else instead and I am leaning towards trying to get people to do RP-PVP and trying to create conflicts IC.. Pacific hasn't been one for RP rules in the past and they won't in the future.. They never have, they never will, they'll reject it in a heart beat, since most in the alliance don't really roleplay at all... It will just get shot down, simple as that.. People are allowed to say "lol" at our tavern nights and I have seen it done many times, while it is hard for players like me who are always in character and go by the basics, it is rather difficult and respond to people when they are out of character, sometimes it can be even frustrating...

Also, there appears to be a lot of administration in our "RP alliance" I happen to believe that it got too big, but guilds who wish to interact with other roleplayers will have no choice but to join it, a guild can still be an RP guild without the alliance, but it would become increasingly difficult.. If I didn't have to highlight my guild with all the guilds in the alliance, I wouldn't do so, I would only stay highlighted with the guilds who are actually being in character, this is why I support warring and believe that the alliance hurts smaller RP guilds that are actually trying to RP since the biggest guilds in the alliance are the ones that have most of the non-roleplayers in them.. Pacific roleplayers sacrificed RP for activity..

Most guilds in the alliance are not roleplaying guilds, they've got the basic RP aspects and a few people who can roleplay, however, it is not a requirement that you have to be in character or RP by any means, same goes with most guilds in the alliance. I believe it was this very reason that ElF(Ancient Order of Elves) left the alliance if I remember correctly, however, they don't support RP warring from what I am aware of, HoFD (House of Flying Daggers) has been offered to join the alliance in the past, again though, they are not a roleplaying guild and a guild based on the book Eaters of the Dead with no RP aspects whatsoever has been pushing to get into the alliance, again, a few roleplayers in the guild..

I would agree with anyone that feels a different approach should be taken, I have waited for years for Pacific to get back to this. But it is holding itself back.. The only way we can get back to such an idea is through sparking interest into the other players..

This is something I plan on doing with some support..

#19
Asbjorn

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Hello Pacific players.
I read your thread with interest and thought you might like to look at how Europa manages RP-PvP...


Thank you for your input Fargo but it would seem this type of restriction is exactly what Palin and I are debating. For example. It doesn't make sense to me to have to have poisoning skill in order to buy a poisoned dagger in a back alley of minoc. A knife stuck in a person is a knife stuck in a person whether the blade has poison on it or not. If the poison wears off the blade yeah you need some poisoning skill to put it back on.

And Palin I will end the debate with this today. Key word of the last part of your post "I have waited for years for Pacific to get back to this. But it is holding itself back". Again that statement says to me "I want the old days". The old days are gone and won't return. We can choose to adapt and keep some role play sanity to it or sit and complain about Britain long gone. You and I are on the same page with alot of things and I hope after our meeting last night we can make that grow into something enjoyable and immersive for everyone.

#20
Palin

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The reason why Europa has those restrictions such as the poisoning one is for a more balanced RP-PVP and believe me, on that shard, it has worked both in past and present, it makes people group up in PVM and gives it more of a challenge as well, and battles last much, much longer and are more more enthralling than any Fel Yew PvP.. But they have had those restrictions for years now, since the shard was born, they have kept it to a more older style.. Hell we don't even use mounts.. We've had battles though on Europa consisting of 70+ roleplayers though, I am sure it would be hell if everyone was running around in the best gear they had, I am also sure GMs get less complaints from their members because of it...