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Future of our community!


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Hey everyone!

 

After much discussion on the future of our community on the Vesper forums it is time to move the conversation here. I know many will think "not again", but we all know it's time to do something.

 

Most of us remember the days where our population was so large that spontaneous roleplay (even with other guilds) was a daily occurrence. We all remember the massive battles/markets/events where our screens would lag due to the amount of people. Those days are long gone and we will never get those back. Ultima Online is unfortunately a dying game due to EA's incompetence.

 

However what we can decide is how we will spend our final years together. This is OUR community. It is time to decide if we wan't to go down together and go out with a bang or die alone.

 

There was much talk on what we could do on in the other thread. There are three options.

 

1: Move closer together into one single area.

 

2: Create a Freeshard (under the guidance of Adam) and move the entire community there by replicating what we have now.

 

3: Do nothing and die a slow and painful death.

 

The best option for me is number 1. Moving into one single area is in my opinion the best way to go. It is the easiest and most feasible option that would have a higher rate of success then creating a freeshard and creating new characters.

 

I have thought many years on the best way to do this and the best compromise is if we all moved to Britain. We can always try it on a trial basis. I shall present the entirety of my plot idea in a separate post.

 

I know I might get flamed for this post. But I won't sit back and watch what we have created all these years, just to evaporate on the account of in real life politics and stubbornness.

 

Here is the link to the discussion going on on the Vesper Boards. It is a good read and explains more on option 2 of creating a freeshard run by Adam.

http://www.uoforums.com/vesper-community-ic-board/87618-you-people.html

 

Love you allz!

Tiolas

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2: Create a Freeshard (under the guidance of Adam) and move the entire community there by replicating what we have now.

 

Just wanted to add, for those who are interested in discussing this more privately, we have a forum located at: The Dark Ages (Yes you'll need to register to post/view)

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Here is my proposal for a temporary move which could (if successful) turn into a permanent thing.

 

The Plot

I spend many hours thinking about what type of event could make everyone move to a single area. It is obvious is should be cataclysmic in size to concern all of us. Then I figured, why not borrow from the past to stick with what our community does best, low fantasy roleplay. Let us recreate one of the most horrific times in European history. The Black Death.

 

(Wikipedia: The Black Death was one of the most devastating pandemics in human history, peaking in Europe between 1348 and 1350.The Black Death is estimated to have killed 30% – 60% of Europe's population. This has been seen as having created a series of religious, social and economic upheavals, which had profound effects on the course of European history. It took 150 years for Europe's population to recover)

 

The Plan

The way it would work is that we all move towards Britain in order to create a quarantined area. The Queen/ King has called upon his armies to come and defend the capital against the horrific decease. The different guard guilds would set up in different parts of town to set up quarantine and tax areas to make sure no infected people enter into the capital. Naturally the people of Sosaria (meaning all the other guilds) hear that Britain is safe from the pest and they want to try and come in.

 

After a while everyone has their designated area. For example like the map below. (This is only an example)

 

2460s4m.jpg

 

The Fun

(These are all examples of the potential things we could do during this plot)

 

This plot could give each and every guild so many things to do. Not only will the guarding guilds have to contain the virus but for example Guard could claim that the virus is the cause of the guardian, and try to convert more people to follow the church. While DOT has healing camps outside of the city to try and cure the plagued.

 

The Moonglow Navy tries to controll the ships coming into town and keeping pirates away.

 

Evil type guilds like VTC could profit for example by scamming people by selling fake cures and transporting other illegal goods/people into Britain. Plus pirating merchant ships coming into Britain to supply the population with food.

 

The ideas are endless!!!!!

 

Housing

There are currently lots of housing opportunities around Britain. We know some guilds are very attached to their own houses like GRd and VTC, while DOT prefers to roleplay inside an npc town.

 

The area where I have marked GRD on the map above allows for the largest plots to be placed.

 

The area where I marked DOT allows for smaller plots, but it is close to the biggest bridge in Britain for example.

 

Again these are only examples of where we could place our houses.

 

Temporary or Permament

 

We can try this on a trial basis. If it does not work a cure to the plague can be found and we can all move back into our little zones of lonely comfort.

 

Luv you allz so don't rip my head off!

X

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Ive been following these various threads for a while now and have wanted to say some things myself. Now Adam has made a forum for it and there are still several places where ideas are being thrown around. I was gonna reply to one thread, then another, then the GM board, then...(Im sure you get the picture). If this is all centralised in one place then Ill be more than willing to help and contribute, give my thoughts etc. I'm sure others may be the same.

 

But I'll briefly explain the problems that I have/ORC have with the current state of the game. We all know about the lower population and the problems, and it is effecting everyone, some to more degrees than others.

 

Orc has been up again for about 2-3 months now. We have 18 orcs on the guildstone, 10 of them are unique, the rest alts. We have set up the basics and the foundations etc, but the problem facing us is the lack of players. Even though we have 10 unique players, they are never on. I know a few of them have RL commitments and cannot play atm. In the few months we have been back, I have never seen more than 2 other orcs on-line at once! And even then that was briefly a couple of times! It seems to be a repeating pattern:-

 

Every week or two we get a new orc join us, they log on and start playing but there are no other orcs about ever so after a week or two they log on less and less and then stop or disappear. Then another joins, but no-one else about and so the pattern continues. I'm on nearly every evening and have a large amount of time to play UO these days, but its demoralising playing by yourself. Most guilds are able to interact still and goto EM events, Battle Nights etc, but this isnt possible with Orc of course.

 

I'm really stuck as what to do. Ive left endless amounts of banners and recruitment stuff, even on other shards lately! We've tried to make things to do in the guild so we're not just a pvp guild. Im now beginning to think that in the games current state, its just not possible to have Orc anymore. If thats the case, does that mean it's not possible to have any further guilds (unless a lot of players create one or something). I've thought about moving shards to Atlanta or somewhere, one of the freeshards, but that would really be as a last resort. But as much as I'd love to stay on Europa, it's just not much fun playing this game solo. This has led me to make a Grd character though (so I have something to do), and Ive been lucky to find enjoyment there as an alternative sometimes.

 

Anyway I wanted to keep it brief sorry. But I just wanted to share our problems with you and get your feedback on this. My goal is still to try and make Orc succeed on Europa (or with the community if they ever moved) and Id appreciate any help, ideas thoughts whatever :)

 

Thanks,

 

Daz (Harbag)

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*ahem*

 

Thanks for leaving our BoC from your plot idea but we could take that area that -SD- is in, seeing as that is not a guild anymore.. Thing is, it just wouldn't be the Baronship of Cove anymore if we did move to Britain.. You might as well make a new guild, however you are onto something. So I am not disagreeing with you.

 

I do believe the community needs to come under one banner, if it be a guild or a alliance between BoC, DoT, Grd and VTC, with a council guild of some kind that consists of leadership from the big four guilds..

 

Inter-guild events and content our much needed. I would suggest weekly community events to bring people together. We already have one, the Trinsic Battle Market, which tons of guilds and players will show up for.

 

In an alliance, community hunts and community tavern nights would be available to us where we could "rotate" the tavern weekly and literally do events daily due to alliance chat features..

 

However, I do not see this happening as I think guilds are too self-centered on many issues regarding the use of alliance chat. etc..

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A few times people have run events and then the Em's have set up an event weeks later at the same time and rather than going to the RP event run for the RP community people scuttle off to the EM event for the items. So that doesn't help matters.

 

Also, the city guilds would cease to exist if they all moved to one place and the city guilds are the largest ones still in existence. People won't give up their guilds heritage just to have a couple more people around.

 

Minnor point as well, but Grd's just finished a massive plague event, involving EM's and multiple guilds. Why introduce another one so soon after?

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If more roleplayers are going to EM events for items than RP ran events than that means those in the RP community are losing interest in roleplaying on here..

 

I think the community needs to learn not to take IC rivalries into the OOC sphere. Removing all IC conflict isn't the answer either - Catskills died because everyone just sat around in taverns and cybered and gossiped all day.

 

We currently see the same thing happening on Europa right now. But Europa's problem is that it went too far in the other direction, and let things go too far OOC.

People are afraid to roleplay their characters and guilds to the fullest extent, because doing so almost invariably results in someone taking it OOC and flipping total !!!!.

 

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Saying "Sure we'll be there" then saying "Sorry can't, EM's got an event" is not someone losing interest. It's just not giving a damn about the community.

 

If they can't arsed turned up for community events they won't be arsed moving their entire guild somewhere else for no good reason.

 

That said I've not been given the impression i can't play my characters as I wished, not sure where that's coming from but maybe that's me. but the answer isn't the regular as clockwork "Guys listen to me we need to save the rp!" threads. The answer is logging in and rping with people and taking a wander if your own guildies aren't around.

 

Less warcries and more action.

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Sorry Palin, I forgot to include Cove on the map. I can add an updated version later. It is a map from a while back hence why SD is still on it. I is just an example.

 

Hey Leo

 

I don't think city guilds would cease to exist! I think exactly the opposite! People would cling hard to who they are and their heritage as they have something to stand for now that other people are around. You are not becoming one BIG city guild. We are rather splitting the city up into little locations with their sphere of influence. Your guild identity would be extra important now that you have rivalling guilds closing in on your territory. You know that in the old days of CoY you had guilds on every doorstep. It did not lessen your identity one single bit. I believe this is the same principle. It is not the town that defines you but the unique heritage and customs and roleplay style that each guild has created over time.

 

 

I know GRD has recently had a plague event. I had the idea for this a long time ago before you guys had your plague event hence why I figured i'd propose it. It was just an example. I also want to congratulate you on that event as you guys put a lot of effort into it. The real plot does not matter as much as the execution of bringing the other guilds together. It could perhaps be a continuation of your event, I'm sure we can figure out something to bring us all together in Britain.

 

What do you think of trying it for a trial basis? We can always go back to the zones we occupy now if we keep our old buildings.

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Leo

 

Saying that to just log in and wander around is too simple. People will log in if there is activity. If they log in and there is no one online, they leave. Going into other peoples territories is frowned upon for several reasons. This problem might not affect GRD as much as it does other guilds. You guys are the one with the biggest current player base.

 

But this is a real problem for other guilds. Harbag gives the perfect example. We know that just saying "You need to log in more and show an interest" does not work. The answer is not that simple unfortunately.

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I can say that while Europa's population hasn't dramatically changed for the last two years, the time spent on the shard by the active players has somewhat decreased. And even if UO is a dying game, it sure dies slow since I heard this line every single time I returned (in 01', 04', 07' and 09') yet it's still running.

 

I think the community needs to learn not to take IC rivalries into the OOC sphere.

 

And vice versa: I was an active member of an rp guild more than a year ago and even back then, I remember sitting in the tavern for hours and seeing one maybe two players each day. I finally found some friends who were active players too until some ooc events (with players on another guild, not even an in-guild event) lead to the ban of four of my friends from the guild and I quit because I thought the situation wasn't handled in a fair way and the decision was in favour of some of the members' who were old friends. They created their own guild but they're left out by the other rp guilds since they got blacklisted. They eventually left the shard and I wander around and hunt lonely ever since.

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I think its a good idea.

 

I like the idea of 'embassies' located around the outskirts of the City, but I'm not sure if it would work entirely as a permanent move. My advice would probably see about making it a one day/night a week thing, and test the waters before committing fully to such a move. Generally, people like their homes - but for an ongoing one day a week campaign.. I'm sure people would be interested in that.

 

There doesn't need to be a huge overhaul, just little differences to get people together.

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Points:

1. The problem with moving all the guilds is that you have the same problem surrounding one city as with cities in different places. Unless your character is afraid to use recall scrolls to get close to another place, you can patrol every hot spot (lukewarm spots?) now in about five minutes.

 

2. Many roleplaying guilds are advertising their events, etc, etc... so we all know what's going on and where. More people just have to go. Or someone should make a "something random" event where they don't tell people what's going to happen. It's not the same as times of yore (not by a long shot), but if it's the only way things will happen, you have to take it.

 

3. Seriously Palin, you think Catskills cyber-sexed themselves to death? That's about the most misinformed, stupid statement I've seen here in a long time. The rapid decline of Catskills roleplaying has to do with a few things. And pay attention everyone, this is important.

...1: The players there relied on the guild masters to tell them how to play the game. When a guild master (or other leader) was absent, the rest of the guild simply wouldn't log on. Pay attention to the fact that this wasn't an isolated incident, and I see it on Europa more than I'd like.

...2: Real life. Since I started playing again 4 years ago, I got married, got a puppy, finished school, and now my wife is having a baby. On top of that, I train with my dogs, I'm a member of two choirs, and I have a fairly active social life outside of the game. For most guilds, this is par for the course. The people who had loads of time to play 13 years ago have decided over the years to change their priorities. This means that the average player plays a lot less, or in the case of Catskills, they waited on the instant messenger of choice until someone they wanted to play with showed up, and only then log in. This meant that the random events which they so enjoyed could never happen since they weren't in game.

...3. Time and UO in general. Face it, having an active RP community after 13 years of UO is astonishing. Europa is pretty much the only shard to have done it successfully. The population of UO has dropped steadily since the Age of Stuff, and it's not about to stop. This means that people can drop out, but there's nobody dropping in to replace them. Add that to the fact that roleplayers are notorious for being stuck up (not pointing fingers, but the reputation is there), and it becomes even harder to attract new people.

 

Much kudos to those of you who do bring in recruits. I certainly failed in my efforts to do so.

 

Anyhow, most of those points are things that Europa roleplayers can do little about. But there are a few certainties.

1. Moving to a non-EA shard will limit the chances of attracting new roleplayers to near zero.

2. Moving to a new location will likely do nothing but irritate some of the home owners who live in the old ones.

3. Doing nothing is not a reasonable option for those who love the community.

 

So without making any complex plans or ideas (not that the original idea and story line were bad, I rather like it myself) we have to ask ourselves these questions (and I don't expect you to answer here).

- What do I want from the roleplaying community?

- How to we get from here to there?

- What do other people need from the community?

- How do we give it to them?

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Anyhow, most of those points are things that Europa roleplayers can do little about. But there are a few certainties.

1. Moving to a non-EA shard will limit the chances of attracting new roleplayers to near zero.

 

That's not a certainty, that's an assumption.

 

How many RP'ers from this Europa section alone have quit because they've become bored with EA's offering and who would return to play a dedicated RP shard, for free, no less?

I can think of a few people and my ICQ list is miniscule, heh.

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A huge part of what killed Shadowclan on Catskills was the "Age of Stuff," as it was put. Thingies don't matter to orcs... and insurance wasn't legal in the guild. PvP fights became ridiculously skewed without the new fancy things.

 

Harassment was another issue... likely due to the new item-based game, insurance and an infux of idiots. So the clan moved to Trammel. But Trammel didn't work... if a humie refused to pay tribute, or harrassed those logged in (sometimes for an hour or more), there was no recourse except to just walk away... and how do you RP that? It happened too often.

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It's worked for Grd.. most people are willing to pay taxes when they pass, even if they do grumble whilst doing so. We've always had griefers, but we just ignore them or dismis them IC as tricksters and illusionists or just plain mad.

 

If a roleplayer attempted the same they'd be either punished IC for breaking the law or chased off. Anyone taking advantage of 'blue status', well that's just a poor showing on their part.

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If more roleplayers are going to EM events for items than RP ran events than that means those in the RP community are losing interest in roleplaying on here..

 

I think the community needs to learn not to take IC rivalries into the OOC sphere. Removing all IC conflict isn't the answer either - Catskills died because everyone just sat around in taverns and cybered and gossiped all day.

 

We currently see the same thing happening on Europa right now. But Europa's problem is that it went too far in the other direction, and let things go too far OOC.

People are afraid to roleplay their characters and guilds to the fullest extent, because doing so almost invariably results in someone taking it OOC and flipping total !!!!.

 

 

On lake superior our community hunts are attended regularly by EMs. They schedule events around the community driven events. I suggest contacting your EM to avoid scheduling conflicts.

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First you have the real problem that people are unwilling to move with all they have and leave everythings their chars built.

 

Concentrating players into one area without a bigger reason does not necessarily mean better or more roleplay. And as you cannot force reason why people left their 'places' in a game you cannot conrol, it just looks silly.

 

Biggest problem now and then is that we as players are lazy and unimaginative.

It was always so that only a few people organized things and the rest trotted along. With less people = less organizers, you just notice it more.

 

My problem though was always that for the fee to pay EA should do more with their game and not throw in items from time to time. Why the heck has UO 10? full towns with vendors, why can't the em's tell shardchanging stories ( ah yes because the developers might patch something into it and mess things up)

 

What can you guys do?

Organize things like stories. Get as many involved as possible - maybe even non rpers to show what you can do.

Be active also with writing stuff to show things happen ingame, so people can get interested.

 

Worst thing though and it is out of your control is that UO needs new players, or more old ones returning. Get EA to do something, they say they have plans, but uhm ... well ...it is EA.

 

Good luck

:)

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A lot of you say that moving into a smaller area will not make a difference in activity. But i'm my experience activity breeds more activity.

 

For example. If you have one person logged on in Stonekeep, Trinsic, Cove and Vesper. They are the only people online, so they have nothing to do and after 5 minutes log out. But if you put these 4 logged on players in a single area they will interact when they come across one another. Even if it is just having a conversation, it still helps with keeping that player online, which in turn breeds more activity.

 

If you take the Moot as a good example. There is always something for people to do because we are just jammed into a smaller area with much more activity.

If there was an event we all knew about it because advertising the event was easier and word of mouth spreads faster.

 

I agree with Kaelyn about needing people to organise events. We need people with imagination to come up with ideas to entertain the others. But organising events only goes half way. You need people to show up and participate. With all the guild politics and territorial headaches and conflicts of scheduling events with other guilds and EM's it has become a headache.

 

I firmly believe that moving into one area will solve half this problem. Closer living space will result in closer coordination between guilds and events. It will open better channels of communication that results in a better organised community.

 

Then you don't need to have people move half way across the world to attend your event. Even though it is easy with recall and gate travel, it is still not natural and frowned upon.

 

When there is an event you might be moving into an area where there is political tension. Some GRD coming to Vesper can often be a tense situation. If you move to one city you can organise events on neutral ground. Allowing more people to come to your events.

 

I am not saying this will 'Save' our community. But it will help with trying to keep things moving and us interacting. If we become a stronger community ,like a few years ago, that has better communication and integration we might be able to lure a few of the roleplayers defecting from the other servers.

 

Kaelyn. I'm also not suggesting people to 'leave' all they have and everything their chars built. It can still be there, i'm not telling people to demolish their houses and give up all they have. You are just moving geographically into a different area which is nothing strange.

 

I would like to add that people tend to overreact when it comes to moving areas. People move from one area to another all the time in real life.Some of you might not remember but long ago wise guild leaders (including GRD) made a decision that allowed our community to grow and prosper. They moved all their belongings and houses from Felluca to Trammel. They had to do this to save the community and prosper. I believe that now our community needs such drastic action. It can not save our community in the long run, but will slow down the disintegration that is currently happening.

 

For me, moving to a freeshard, rebuilding characters, skills, belongings and houses is a much bigger and drastic move that should only be attempted once this much simpler idea fails.

 

The most important thing is that all this can be tried on a Trial basis. Try it for two/three weeks. See if people enjoy it! If not then nothing is lost and we can go back to our old areas.

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Sorry, but I cannot see the all groups come together in one area work, as I see no real way you can make the story work.

The plague thing is way too forced as nothing in the world changes ... npcs are all in towns people in their houses and so on.

 

You are right though on the interaction part, that that is missing.

Didn't the GM's sometimes sit down for Meta stories over the shard.

 

Think about some Meta stories which could bring people together for common goals, like the em does and work from there.

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For example. If you have one person logged on in Stonekeep, Trinsic, Cove and Vesper. They are the only people online, so they have nothing to do and after 5 minutes log out. But if you put these 4 logged on players in a single area they will interact when they come across one another. Even if it is just having a conversation, it still helps with keeping that player online, which in turn breeds more activity.

You're right, activity breeds activity HOWEVER people don't go see who else is about now, being spread across the vast expanse of Britain isn't going to change that. It takes all of 2 seconds to recall (which almost every guild allow and do) which is must less time than running across Britain in the vain hope someone is on. If people don't care enough to check now it won't change just because they're 'nearer'.

 

If you take the Moot as a good example. There is always something for people to do because we are just jammed into a smaller area with much more activity.

If there was an event we all knew about it because advertising the event was easier and word of mouth spreads faster.

 

I don't see how it spreads any faster? It happens the same way where ever the event is. ICQ spams, GC spams and on all the forums. Moots work because they're temporary (look how many people go 'home' during the moots too, they come for the events, some hang around after, the rest return to their towns.)

 

I agree with Kaelyn about needing people to organise events. We need people with imagination to come up with ideas to entertain the others. But organising events only goes half way. You need people to show up and participate. With all the guild politics and territorial headaches and conflicts of scheduling events with other guilds and EM's it has become a headache.

 

I agree - but again being nearer doesn't mean people are more likely to attend!

 

I firmly believe that moving into one area will solve half this problem. Closer living space will result in closer coordination between guilds and events. It will open better channels of communication that results in a better organised community.

 

You keep saying this, but WHY? What makes you think that it will result in better communication. If anything I see it leading to more arguments about who can be where, when. Who has rights to the bank, who can go to blah blah.

 

When there is an event you might be moving into an area where there is political tension. Some GRD coming to Vesper can often be a tense situation. If you move to one city you can organise events on neutral ground. Allowing more people to come to your events.

 

It's not the 'area' that's the problem, it's the tension between guilds IC. If Grd were running an event in Moonglow (has happened) Vesper will still be a bit iffy attending as they're warring factions. Where the event is doesn't change that.

Kaelyn. I'm also not suggesting people to 'leave' all they have and everything their chars built. It can still be there, i'm not telling people to demolish their houses and give up all they have. You are just moving geographically into a different area which is nothing strange.

 

That's another problem, and whilst it will never happen - if people DID demolish their houses this idea could work. The fact that almost all of us have personal houses near to our current bases is a massive reason this won't work. People will still go home for roleplay, meaning they're even further from everyone. Also how can you fully immerse yourself into the belief that the world is plague ridden (or whatever excuse you use to get people all to move when you can just pop back to your player house nice and happily. If it were so dangerous you moved your life and work, you would move your house too.

 

I think it's a great scenario idea but as a long term thing I just can't see it working too well, especially in a place like Britain.

 

One last point from me - I really dislike these threads popping up every few minutes. If anything they only serve to make people feel more disgruntled and less enthused about UO and the RP community. The amount of effort and time spent writing posts on here and coming up with these plans and messages on how 'awful' things are now is killing UO and RP far quicker than how far apart we all are. If everyone that has posted on this thread logged in even two nights a week and did -something- led or sparked -anything- themselves, the community would be a mile better already.

Like you said, activity breeds activity. Seeing just one person online and doing something is enough to make someone else want to.

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Tanya

 

I'm sorry you feel annoyed by these posts. However they pop up for a reason. It means there are a lot of people out there that are disgruntled with the current situation. Certain guilds feel the heat more than others. It is a shame to have people leaving UO because there is no interaction.

 

You're right, activity breeds activity HOWEVER people don't go see who else is about now, being spread across the vast expanse of Britain isn't going to change that. It takes all of 2 seconds to recall (which almost every guild allow and do) which is must less time than running across Britain in the vain hope someone is on. If people don't care enough to check now it won't change just because they're 'nearer'

 

I don't agree with this for the following reason. People do not go and see who is about because it is frowned upon due to the guild tensions. For example, if I recall to stonekeep to see what is going on I feel like people are just thinking "Oh he is here for trouble". Also why should my character recall to stonekeep to find interaction. If we had a central neutral type ground like a city, then we would bump into people all the time.

 

You keep saying this, but WHY? What makes you think that it will result in better communication. If anything I see it leading to more arguments about who can be where, when. Who has rights to the bank, who can go to blah blah.

 

I do not say better as in friendlier. I said better channels of communication. What I mean with this is that guilds will be forced to open dialogue more often on a lot of issues due to the closer living space. Yes there might be arguments but I feel that it is better to have an arguments to try and solve then what is happening now. People are not even bothering arguing with one another but prefer to ignore each other.

 

One last point from me - I really dislike these threads popping up every few minutes. If anything they only serve to make people feel more disgruntled and less enthused about UO and the RP community. The amount of effort and time spent writing posts on here and coming up with these plans and messages on how 'awful' things are now is killing UO and RP far quicker than how far apart we all are. If everyone that has posted on this thread logged in even two nights a week and did -something- led or sparked -anything- themselves, the community would be a mile better already.

 

I never said things are awful. People still come up with fantastic ideas and events. But our community is slowly decreasing in members due to many different reasons. Some of these reasons we can do something about, others we can't change. The ones that we can do something about should certainly be discussed, as I am doing. I'm not simply saying "Move closer together NOW or we are doomed". I'm merely proposing an option, saying why I think it will work and offering scenarios to get the ball rolling.

 

Like you said, activity breeds activity. Seeing just one person online and doing something is enough to make someone else want to.

 

This above statement is exactly what I am proposing.

 

Cheers

Tiolas

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Greetings...

 

We have many different guilds and players so this is my current plan...

 

attachment.php?attachmentid=12616&d=1305605554

 

 

 

Four fortifications:

C3 paladins, E4 villains, SE2 royal guards, SW5 (unknown)

 

Orc fort:

E6

Evil Temple:

E5

Pirate Hideout:

E3

 

 

Arena and Town Prison:

C1

 

TownHall:

E7

 

Illegal werewolf Fights:

SW3

 

 

 

All guilds will be warring each other... so it seems the EA town guards are somewhat corrupted... they turn a blind eye to alot of the current chaos...

 

FURY... paladins

DUSK... thieves that can steal, kill, plunder... (no guild rules)

RBG... royal guards (TB)

RBGM... new magincia rbg regiment (TB)

RGM... magincia regiment (non TB)

NMT... new magincia township for those playing citizens

 

All guilds are welcomed to war us... and get their own HQ... we have 18 houses out of the 23 avaliable in the island... (beach house included)

 

the gentle rest island... is plain irony... =)

 

we dont ask people to move their guild hq... just have an outpost.

 

Thank you for the amazing discussion seen in this thread...

 

I hope this helps and best of luck!

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If we're going to attempt anything like this in the near future, then I agree something needs to be attempted on the OSI shards before anything private is discussed.

 

I don't think something as 'basic' as another moot will work as a trial for grouping the community, because I think it to too close together for it to realistically demonstrate what a closer community would be feel like.

 

I know as a member of Grd that this will sound bias, although if you fail to see where my logic is coming from there's probably no point you contributing to this discussion anymore.

 

I think Yew would be a suitable place to host such a trial event, if one were to be planned.

 

"Ofcourse he'd say that he's Grd, they wouldn't have to move."

 

It's not that, Yew is massive, there are loads of groups of empty plots that could be temporarily used by guilds, it is big enough to included everyone. I don't think there is a place on UO that would suit such a scenario better than Yew.

It has already been demonstrated to provide (arguably) the best RP UO-Europa has ever seen in the form of CoY and the guilds involved in that.

 

However, all that being said, I think the biggest problem with our community not functioning properly as a community is that guilds have, and probably always will have mis-conceptions of other guilds, and thus instantly dismiss any interaction with certain guilds due to something that probably happened 5-10 years ago.

These mis-conceptions are the things that have always held our community back, for example people actually believing that Grd was a guild full of nazi-racists on an OOC level, that Vesper are nothing more than fel-pvpers with RP gear on, that Trinsic will not go near anything that could turn into any form of conflict.

 

Cutting a long story short, it's about letting other guilds dictate abit of RP to you for a period of time, and throwing your guild right into it. It's not about umming and ahhing whether or not to go to the EM event with the hope of finally un-lagging after the dyed red dragon with 45,000 hit points has been killed by every non-RPer on the shard. It's about helping the community by attending an event that has been organised by one person, or a number of people for the whole community, which would be a really successful event if it wasn't that 30/35 Rpers logged on that night were either killing said red dragon on their Rp char, or sat afk playing mine sweeper because they don't have any faith that the event will be a success.

 

Nine times out of ten these days most guilds will go the EM event because it is easier, requires less leadership and they stand a chance of getting a normal UO item with a modified name that they think might be valuable at some point.

 

By now the situation of RP in UO is at a stage where people need to put some effort in to reap the reward that keeps us all paying our subs, and there is alot of people out there that simply log on, click guild roster and log back off again.

 

There's only so much we can improve on by changing where we're all based, the thing that has to change the most is the attitudes of the guild leaders, and most importantly the attitudes of the players within those guilds.

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I’m 100% behind Tanya in my dislike of these threads. I find them negative and boring and despite a myriad of so-called “good ideas”, they are generally more destructive than constructive. For these reasons I stopped even browsing through them unless, as in this case, someone has pointed out that I might find it “interesting”.

 

This old chestnut of centralisation has been doing the rounds for years. It’s not going to work and it’s not going to happen, end of! The sooner people realise that and start working with what we have, the better. Centralisation is not a “New Big Idea”, it is old hat and no matter how you try to “tart” it up, no one is going to buy it.

 

The “Next Big Idea”, again one that has circulated for years, is all moving to some freeshard clone. That is not going to work either. When this platform dies I and most of the people I play with in UO will draw a line in the sand, call it quits and move on.

 

Tiolas – this thread seems to have been inspired by a perceived lack of activity. Can I ask what you have recently contributed personally by way of starting a storyline or scenario? It only takes two or three of you to start something off. You have a VTC character yet I have not seen you involved in any way with the Drow/VTC alliance, most recently when we (along with the Orcs) attempted to disrupt a shipment between DoT and Grd. Nor did you appear to be around when, due to Rebecca’s absence, Vierna took it upon herself to “discipline” Devante.

 

Now you may of course have had good and pertinent reasons for not being involved, but it shows there are things going on. All it takes is the smallest of efforts to find something. There is tension with the Duchy; your character is in a shady guild so I assume is a crook, so why don’t you exploit that?

 

Please don’t take these comments as a personal dig; that was not my intention. I’m only trying to point out what can or could be done.

 

To all those who yearn for a renaissance, if that is what you want, if you really care about the future of Europa RP, then start logging in your characters and start something. Whinging on threads like this and sitting around waiting to be told what to do is not the answer. Get on and do something yourself for a change!

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Personally, I agree with most of what Vierna has said.

 

I think the first 'drastic' change that needs to happen is people actually log in and stop whining on forums that no one is on.

Even if you did get the consensus and everyone moved, it's not a miracle cure - we'll still be in the same old rut of the same people doing things and interacting unless people actually log in, and do it.

 

It takes just one person to roleplay, 2 for response and reaction play and 3 for a scenario.

The more we see of this the more people will be around generally making things easier for even larger scale interaction.

 

That said trying a 'condensing' scenario is definitely better than hopping to a freeshard as step one.

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It's not that I disagree with what she is saying, I object to the way she is saying it, I pretty much wrote what she wrote, in a more constructive fashion as well as addressing the topic at hand, while suggesting a alternative to everyone moving.

 

It's the "Everyone stfu trying to help our community" attitude that seems to jump forward from certain people, this is about trying to work together as a community and constructive communication is a key part of that. There seems to be alot of motivation to do something to help the community in this thread, so even if you don't agree with the topic, stop trying to derail it by insulting people and trying to stamp authority (that no one has over anyone these days) over what is discussed.

 

It's fine writing "I mean no offence" but really, what was put could be very offensive to whoever it was intended for especially seeing as you appear to have no idea why they have or have not being playing.

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I've tried to stay away from all this despite people bugging me to get involved. My position at the moment means I'm an inactive part of the community despite the odd pop on to see what's going down, so my opinion might fall on deaf ears - although I do intend to put more hours in once I finish with college after the next two weeks.

 

My position on the freeshard idea is that on paper, sure it's going to work. If it's an absolute mirror of what we have on Europa, what can you argue against it? The lack of blues running about in bright orange clad screaming lolololololol? As much as I'd miss them, they don't really add to the community.

 

The thing that I don't agree with though is a centralising of the community. To me, that's just a big !!!! YOU to the past 13 or whatever years of Europa RP. Centralising wont save our community, if anything I can see such a number in different opinions in such a small area that it will cause more friction. And no, there wont be an increase in players anytime soon (unless UO goes F2P, but that's just hearsay). All we can do is make the best of a bad situation and ride the storm until the sun beams down on us with a solution.

 

Our problem is that those remaining have gotten lazy - a lot of us are thinking "ah !!!! it, there's not enough people to do events" and so on. Well !!!! that, there have been times when I've hosted events and only I turned up! Any plans of centralisation should be temporary scenario-based. A siege perhaps. I know Devante was planning an attack to take over Serpents Hold which would open up to allow all guilds to build encampments within the City where they would use to prepare for battle on the island. That sounds more fun than having to spend the rest of my time on UO cooped up with you lot in Britain or something.

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Well, with colleges and schools finishing soon, hopefulyl activity will pick up when people have more time. Last year didnt seem so active, but the year before was pretty good, with the tavern war between Cove's Goblin and Swaggers, the Brotherhood getting up to shady stuff, and Cove's ruffians robbing elves and mages under the guise of taxation, with the Baron taking his cut. Then autumn happened, schools and colleges re-started and people moved on.

 

A freeshard won't really solve anything. It takes long enough for the GM Board to agree on the ruleset here, imagine it on a new shard. People would be arguing for full loot and deadly poison, others would be pointing out that deadly poison would be overpowered without people having enough coin to blow on greater cure pots.

 

Centralisation wouldn't really work. A lot of people would miss their old haunts and go back.

 

To be honest, if you were going to centralise, imho best idea would be to make it a fresh start. Pick somewhere remote like Delucia and have some new characters set up the basic political landscape. Maybe even restrict it to all-new characters so there's no baggage. There's an orc fort nearby so orc-rpers can get involved. But again, odds are it would be active for a month, dying after two and dead after three.

 

If you were going to do a freeshard, one idea wuld be go the Lost route; customise a new land, an island and have new characters on it be shipwrecked or sent by magical mishap. Players would have to forage and mine, and craft to get stuff. Regs would be scarce so mages would have to rely on other skills and use magic sparingly. Have GM's run intriguing plots, gradually revealing the island. I played a free NWN2 server that did something like this, even had perma-death. Sadly the harsh xp gain coupled with permadeath in part led to its demise.

 

And even if it all works and RP flourishes? Star Wars: The Old Republic will be out later this year/early next year. So expect to lose a lot of people to that, only if temporarily.

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Sometimes I wish people would think before they type.

 

Vierna, instead of replying to this thread in a constructive manner and respond to the idea being proposed, you launch an uncalled personal attack on me. Best way too respond to such posts is to ignore them. I hope when you look back on your post you realise you look childish and should be embarassed.

 

Declan, I agree that Yew would be a good location to attempt such a scenario. So much free space ect, but it kinda seems impossible for the other guard guilds to move into that area. That is why I picked Britain, neutral location.

 

The truth is, like the idea or not, it is opening a dialogue on what people perceive to be ailing our community. A lot of people seem to think that guild relations should be improved. Others are concerned about people not logging in, coming to events or going to EM events instead.

 

Getting these problems heard is the first step to adress them. We can work from this thread to collect ideas on how to improve the issues that people repeatedly mention. Making our community healthier in the long run.

 

So I hope this thread continues to grow and expand with ideas to actually solve the problems coming forward.

 

Van mentioning Devs idea for a siege on Serpent hold sounds like an excellent scenario for Guild bonding. I hope there can be enough corporation to see it actually happening.

 

I'm currently working on a Theatre event that is not guild specific. It will allow for some good bonding between characters. I'll anounce the dates soon.

 

I hope people stop being afraid to post on these type of threads. There is not much else being discussed on these boards anyway.

So, please keep the ideas flowing and coming.

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I like this thread. It shows that people are concerned about the future of UO and our community.

If you agree with the ideas or not, the fact that individuals are airing their thoughts is constructive and I imagine they are putting as much time and effort into RP'ing as well.

 

I will also add that I consider Vierna to be one of the most consistent and steadfast RP'ers I have ever had the good fortune to encounter and it is always a pleasure to interact with her, although I haven't seen her for some time.

Perhaps if we were all in a smaller area?........ ;)

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The thread has got more positive, so lets try and keep it that way. I have gotten a few thoughts from here and thats what I'm after really, ideas and such. We had a good ooc chat tonight about progressing orc and our future. We are gonna be working on culture and growing our orcs (as most are new), so logging in for daily life etc.

 

Working on smaller story lines and plots, so it doesnt matter if 1 orc, 2 orcs or 8 orcs log in each night. We will just be getting on with the plot and interacting together. I like how Tanya put it -

 

It takes just one person to roleplay, 2 for response and reaction play and 3 for a scenario.

The more we see of this the more people will be around generally making things easier for even larger scale interaction.

 

I also had a chat with Vierna and will be interacting with them (the drow) along this route. Hopefully we will be able to put alot of good ideas into practise.

 

We will also be going around Sosaria quite a bit for numerous reasons. We are also trying to work on things so that not everything has to come to a klomp. As we're smaller we are gonna have to adapt to survive.

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I haven't seen her for some time.

Perhaps if we were all in a smaller area?........ ;)

 

Been playing pretty much constantly for the last 6 years and seen her about 4 times?

Like has already been discussed, it's about people not being willing to play in situations where their characters reputation may be compromised.

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My four penneth:

 

1. Very, very sorry to Adam, Hawk and Visko for vanishing - I'm currently one of only two people in my work (out of eight) contractually obligated to cover 'late' and weekend shifts so I'm bogged down doing twelve hours a day and don't really have the time for UO or talking about UO. Bad timing, I know.

 

2. I've said a hundred and one times that threads like this do not work. I think Vierna's brand of negativity is probably equally unhelpful but at the same time, we know that these boards are a breeding ground for arguments so why exactly are people still bothering? Maybe it's to show off as the shining light of great ideas, I don't know.

 

If you want to actually put together a constructive idea then go away, work on it, compile a dossier of sorts and then present it to either your GM or the GMs community forum. I'm sure if you've some great new idea that's been honestly well thought out then they'd give you access.

 

(Nb: This doesn't mean you go away and create some world from scratch on your own so that people you don't like don't get a say in it and then try and present it as some community saving new world)

 

 

3. Centralization is inevitable, as I've said elsewhere - it already happens all the time, we just don't call it such. Whichever of Cove or Vesper has the most actively staffed tavern at any given time has almost all of the players in that area. There is centralization in practice.

 

People !!!! brix at the idea of centralization because they think it must require some gargantuan plot and the moving of all of our guilds (and their precious little pixel hotspots!) This isn't the case. Granted it could be the case (and far more easily than people admit) but it needn't be. Centralization is just the logical conclusion of the depletion of our community, when there's only - literally - five to fifteen RPers left they're hardly going to sit on their own in six or seven different areas twiddling their thumbs, are they?

 

 

4. Freeshards are the answer. I have absolutely no idea why people would resist being able to get MORE for LESS. Go and play Grimmwold or any of it's creators other freeshards. The standards of roleplay are abysmal, so don't even try and immerse yourself, but that's down to them and not us - with a Europa RP freeshard you'd have Europa RP standards.

 

Just go and have a look at the world they've created, at zero expense to the average player. You save ten quid a month and you get a BETTER world for it. We're not talking about a Britannia clone. Why the F would you make a freeshard and just clone Britannia when you could make it infinitely better?

 

You could give Vierna her own underdark, complete with genuine underground city, interactive bank, drow reagent selling NPC for convenience, whatever she wanted. You could give VTC their own little pirate cove complete with smuggling caves and all new Swaggers Inn that actually functioned as an Inn (without the need to friend everybody.)

 

I think there are effectively three major factors that put people off freeshards. Firstly, their lack of understanding at how MUCH better freeshards genuinely have the capacity to be; secondly, the fear of losing control to whoever "runs" the shard and finally the fear of further splitting up our community.

 

Firstly, go research. Just do a google image search for Grimmwold or find the screenshots on their website. Or any other major freeshard. The realms of what's actually manageable completely put EA to shame.

 

Secondly, that's exactly why myself and a number of others were talking to Adam and why I wanted to bring the idea to the GMs community before I got otherwise tied up. With a team of neutral developers who would agree to have the shard be run by an appointed council of administrators selected by this community we could essentially just shift the current running of what we have to a new context.

 

Maybe shake off a little bit of the deadwood and give a few of our more creative lights that aren't current GMs the chance to step up, but certainly nobody who's currently in a strong position of leadership need be snubbed.

 

Finally, look at what we have left. It's tiny. Do you REALLY think that moving 90% of those people to a freeshard, once their GMs had been convinced, would be difficult? I've been involved in whole-guild faction / shard changes on WoW that involved literally hundreds of people - all needing to be coerced to pay with their hard earneds to move - and it was easy with just a forum alone.

 

People go with the herd and they're a lot easier to shepherd than you'd imagine. If we uprooted Europa RP to it's own freeshard, not only would people come but you'd have far, far, FAR greater chance of recruiting new players than you do now.

 

I absolutely guarantee that the biggest freeshards not only have a larger playerbase than Europa RP but probably double to tripple to influx of new players, too. Plus, how many lurkers are floating around the community without active accounts who would come back and dabble from time to time if it was free!?

 

Surely the likes of Escaflowne, VanQa, Sally Buttons, callumf, Raul and whoever else would all happily stick their heads in from time to time and occasionally bump up activity if all they had to do was log on to a shard that cost them nothing, with no commitments? Every little helps, after all.

 

If you actually ENJOY roleplay and are still playing because you WANT to roleplay, then why exactly just sit and count down the days until EA pull the plug? Why sit here waiting for some money-loving company to decide their cash cow's gotten too old to milk? Put your destiny in your own hands and be willing to do something about it.

 

That is, IF you actually still enjoy roleplay. If you're hanging on purely out of habit because you want to just be one of the last people on the server then that's fine by everyone else. But don't come in here giving everyone a barrage of your negativity just because YOU don't want to be a part of the community's continued future.

 

 

 

Rant/essay over.

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I'm always sitting in the bushes with my pot of honey, lurking and watching!

 

Sure if it was a freeshard i'd most likely play. I don't play right now probably mainly because i don't want to pay £10 a month for a game i might only log into once or twice a week. With a free game you don't feel forced to log in to get your moneys' worth, can just log in when you feel like playing :). For me to come back to Europa there would have to be something amazing going on or great activity/playerbase etc.

 

One thing that also bugs me; and i'm not sure if any other GM's/leaders feel the same way. But when i took up a leadership/GM role in UO, the game changed and felt different for me. I saw it in a different light and it is really hard to go back to just being a casual rp'ing grunt or whatever. I feel if i did return i'd end up trying to do a leadership role and probably burn myself out again lol.

 

Right now i'm just roleplaying on a Freelancer RP server :).

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No worries Shali, RL is a !!!!! at times.

 

I agree to all your points. But I feel the need to underline my own concerns for this community.

 

The one and only concern I have is the new player flow. EA have made it almost impossible to reach new players through other means than attending to EM events (smart eh?), which I belive is a big reason to guilds actually attending to these, and why they feel the need to show their colours. When New Haven was still an obligatory spawnplace for new players, I still believed that we could survive for some time on the recruits we got from there. But thats not the case anymore.

 

We have to be realistic.

 

Look at what happened during the "Return to Britannia" periods of the game. I remember the time during the last Minoc conflict, the playerbase must have at least dubbled in our community of returning members only.

 

Economy is a huge issue for several of our former players of the community. Not to speak of the New Players that come to try UO. When I was in my prime of recruiting I can count more than 20 new player recruits that would had kept on playing after the 14 days trial, if it was for free. Everyone who has ever mass recruited has experienced this. That's however where we could be, and offer them a free alternative.

 

Centralisation or not, without new blood to our community, I have to say we're becoming quite unintresting. Now I don't want to offend anyone. There's several players I really enjoy roleplaying with. But it's the same people. And its rare that I don't know which player is playing what character. Many of the major guilds are quite dependant on new recruits in order to remain interesting. Again, please don't get me wrong, I know a lot of people who are doing their best (and succeeding) in keeping their guilds interesting. But its a struggle. I'm mostly refering to guilds with ranking systems. If we don't have new recruits to fill the lines, the RP of training the new recruits, advancements and personal goals dissapear. Much of the spontanious RP is hence removed by this. If all guardsmen are veterans who have done all/seen all, it's so much harder to be able to please their RP needs. At times only a massive war can do it. Something which takes a lot of work from a few people. To summarise, without new players, we lose a lot of the spontanious RP many guilds are based of. Which used to be there to ease the burden of the people who create the events and make them actually enjoy the game. I believe we've already lost a lot of such RP. Which may be a reason to why many GMs and event creators feels worn out.

 

I don't care for centralisation on OSI/EA shard, any attempt to do so with our current playerbase will not bring us more people. Nor any returning members. Neither will making awesome scenarios, because, well, people can't pay for it.

 

I'm not looking for a solution that will buy us perhaps a year or more before our community diminshes even more. I want something lasting, something that will boost our community. Which I believe an Europa RP freeshard have the potentional of doing.

 

As I was reading through this thread, I got a really really worrying feeling. And I really hope that I'm wrong with feeling such. But at times it feels like some poeple wouldn't like to see our community grow. Like if they find it a threat if it does. I really hope this is not the case, and that I'm feeling an unneccessairy feeling. (Again don't get me wrong, I'm not saying everyone who doesn't agree with me are anti community growth. Its just a general worry I have.)

 

The RP pontentials there are with an Europa RP freeshard are numerous, we'd be able to make a working system for our silver currency, make farmers actually able to own farms, and train skills of farming. I'm sure Adam can fill in on more awesome features that can be added to a freeshard. But it's also riskful. The one and only thing I fear is a split. Which I hope we all agree is not worth it.

 

I also know that many have already put down huge investments in the game. I myself have bought several things for x amounts of mills, always paying with real cash as I cba with farming gold. But I find it quite annoying what our community have turned into. To be able to somewhat compete in Pvp. You have to spend those mills on 115/120 scrolls. Yes, it's logical that veteran players may be more skillful, but there's other ways to go about that than buying PS for x amount mills or RL cash.

 

I wish our community took a step away from the large OOC investments people have to make to find things enjoyable. This is partly where my worries comes in also, does some feel like they've spent too much RL/UO cash on the game to give it up and start playing for free?

 

Everyone should be able to RP and PvP (without being completely owned), without having to spend massive amounts of virtual or real money. Or at least, that's something I believe we should aim for.

 

Edit: This became so much longer than expected, although, it's my 2 cents in the discussion.

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PS: As for "stop whinging and log in," can I just point out that, in my experience, the people who are actively participating on the forums are usually also the people actively participating in-game?

 

I don't know who Tiolas is, but if you look around the rest of this thread you have Nathaniel Hawk, Leo Madsen, Van Cocidious and Harbag as major contributors. Does anybody REALLY want to sit there straight-faced and claim these people aren't in game contributing every single day? Even when the shard is dead.

 

Unless things have changed drastically in the last four or five weeks, these were amongst the server's most active persons. Moreover I'd like to think that, before I got tied up in work quite recently, I'd have made that list also (for better or for worse.)

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Tbh if there was anything advertised that gave me some genuine interest I would log in for a bit =)

 

I ran a kind of mini history lesson in Trinsid a while back and there were about 20 attendees - of which about 10 were "blue" rpers and there was some DOT and that was about it really. I had fun though so the UO bug still has me!

 

[And before you start flaming - thats not a criticism of what's currently going on its just that I rarely check the forums so I dont see much to log in for. Yup thats lazy and yes I need spoon-feeding something to attend but I guess thats a sign of my age and the fact that I dont have time at work anymore to sit and surf the forums or chat on ICQ =)]

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I don't know who Tiolas is' date=' but if you look around the rest of this thread you have Nathaniel Hawk, Leo Madsen, Van Cocidious and Harbag as major contributors. Does anybody REALLY want to sit there straight-faced and claim these people aren't in game contributing [i']every single day?[/i] Even when the shard is dead.

 

Yeah I've been pretty busy with college the last few months lol. But when I do have the time and I'm able to get in game I am always making events and getting as many people as I can involved. Hopefully after next week when I'm college free I'll be able to do a bit more again until I'm bound to University :(

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It's a good point about power scrolls etc. I fist came to Europa around September 205. I started UO in October 2000 in Lake Superios (no idea why, I live in the UK). Since then the ROE has become increasingly geared towards skills and items. I remember feeling slightly guilty about using pots on a couple of chars. Now they're pretty much essential.

 

A freeshard would have definate advantages but God help those in charge trying to sort out a ROE.

 

The other problem is a lot of the contributing members have 'grown up' and have families. Their immediate 'heirs' have growj up and are now at university/college and are only really available during the summer.

 

I hope, regardless of what happens, that the community grows, whether it is on this shard, a free shard or another game. The days of a RP community are dying in MMORPGs. In many games guilds are RP-only within themselves.

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Just a brief comment on the freeshard that's currently being discussed. Link (Need to register to take part)

 

The discussions are going rather well, so far, people are putting their ideas forward on what they'd want to see and polls are being created to get the community's thoughts on changes/additions etc.

 

As it stands, the GM's of the guilds who move to said freeshard, would essentially be in control of the world, it would be them, who dictate what needs changing. (Assuming of course, the europa RP guilds DO move)

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