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First time as a PVP mage... hows my suit and template for the task?

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19 replies to this topic

#1
Belanos

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I've always been a paladin macer when pvping, but I've decided to start using my mage in pvp. Since I'm very inexperienced on the mage side of pvp, I'm turnong to you to straighten me out before I start.

My template is as follows:
Human
120 magery
120 eval
120 meditation
120 resist
120 spellweaving
100 inscription

template is pretty much nonnegotiable. I -will not- under any circumstances, use mysticism or necromancy. I hate feeling like a cheap fighter.

Suit is:
DCI 45
LRC 100
LMC 29
FC 4
FCR 6
SDI 20
resists 65 70 70 70 70 (fire at 92 to cancel out corpse skin)
Intelligence +18
HPR 3
SR 1
MR 19
Mana increase 8
reflect physical 23

The suit doesn't have boots, earrings, or a weapon, so I can add whatever I want as a weapon without hurting these stats. The +int replica boots might be added later. Might add nocturne earrings.

have to use magic reflection to bring poison from 60 to 70, but the physical cap drops from it so I only have 65.

And, the entire suit is non-imbued ^_^

So, how does the suit and template stack up for a pvp mage setup? Any tips or advice?

thanks!
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#2
Gnomy

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Personally ive never liked playing a mage without wrestling.

Maybe things changed these days.. I'd look into that if i were you.
Also, i think its pretty standard to add extra HP on suits. How much hitpoints do you got at moment?

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#3
Belanos

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forgot to add that

not logged in at the moment but I think it was 102 HP, 25 stam, and 151 mana
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... it's pronounced 'fel-ookah', not 'fel-oosha' ...

#4
Gnomy

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You will need more HP. 102 get eaten away really fast and can be hard to heal up in time. Atleast 20 more to have a little buffer.

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#5
Merc

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I understand what you are saying about your template BUT (lol) i would leave spellweaving and add alchemy or wrestling like gnomy said or even ninja. Spellweaving is not a pvping skill. But with that being said I you need a mage weapon if you are not using wrestling. Also go with enchance pots (ep) and chog pots one to buff your stat and you cure and heal. Also I never worried about corpse skin so you could think about lowering your fire to 70. I always ran with 65 fire anyways and was corpse skined about 3 times since playing uo.

#6
Merion

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Since most pvpers switched from necro to mystic, corpse skin isn't such a big concern anymore. And if it happens - eat an apple.

So you can lower your fire resist. On the other hand: you should up your other resist so that you are at all 70 without any spells or buffs.

I agree on the mage weapon, imbue a dagger with MW -20, SC (no -1) and 15 dci. You then have to get 20 magery on the suit. You can do that with the crystalline ring, 2 jewels or 1 jewel and a treatise on alchemy. But only with a weapon in hand you can really benefit from your dci - and the goal is 70 here to counder HLD.

You should try and get 40 LMC. Also maybe a bit more Stamina Reg and a little less MR (you do not do as much consecutive casting in PvP as in PvM, so 10-12 MR with 120 Medi is usually enough)

Furthermore I agree on Spellweaving being not the best choice for pvp. If you aim for survivability, you could add Parrying (use Enhance Potions and greater agility pots to get to 80 dex). Other choices would be Poisoning or maybe Tracking.

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#7
Belanos

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I use spellweaving because its my favorite kind of magic. I'm not as concerned with having the perfect pvp template as I am using a template that I have fun using.

Been working on getting my resists right. I don't like imbuing so its basically just barbed kits I'm using. Need to put out a collar with a certain set of stats to max out resists and hit 35 lmc. I've been focusing on mr, lrc, and fire resist, so knowing that such high mr and fire resist isn't as critical as I thought, I should be able to produce one that will round out my suit a little better.

As for a weapon I've got an imbued dagger with SC, fc -0, SSI 30, and mw-20 which ill use until I can make an equivelant nonimbued weapon (personal preference).

Level 7 magery spells can be cast with 100% success at 100 magery, right?

Also I want to pvp and pvm without changing anything except for my spellbook, so I'm trying to keep heavy mr as well. I can drop 2 for the sake of resists and SR/+HP but I'm not comfortable going any lower than that
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... it's pronounced 'fel-ookah', not 'fel-oosha' ...

#8
Farsight

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Level 7 spells can be 100% somewhere between 105 and 110. I can't remember the actual value... 106 seems to stick out in my head. I always went with 110 just to be safe.
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#9
Evolus

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I only play faction mages. I will help you with some things. I'm at work so I can't actually look up pieces to give you solid advice. I'll tell you what I wear though...which gives you 70 DCI, 40 LMC, 100 LRC, good MR, +25 HP (Max), 40 EP, and all 70 resists (with an option to be protection proof).

Lets start first with jewelry:

Bracelet: Ornament of the Magician (Faction)
Ring: +15 Magery, +15 DCI, +25 Enhance Potions, 3 FCR, and you can actually imbue on a small amount of something else. Up to you!


Faction Pieces:
Crimson Cincture for +10 HP
Folded Steel Reading Glasses +25 DCI


Talisman:

Alchy Talisman with +5 magery and 15 EP

Clothing:

Conj Garb
Intel Boots if POssible
Lt Sash if Possible or The corgul sash with 5 DCI
Quiver of Infinity for 5 DCI
Resist earrings (Pref physical)


Rest of Armor:

Some people where Protector of Battle Mage, Enchanted Kelp Leggings, etc... You can either imbue your pieces or pick up some of these pieces.

I suggest on the imbued pieces to have 5 HPI, 8 LMC, LRC, and MR...as much as possible.

Also for a mage wep:

Planesword
50 Hit Fireball
15 DCi
Mage Wep
Spell Channeling

That should get you started.

#10
Yelena

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spellweave can very handy in a field fight, attunement is helpful in a gank with lvl 6 focus as can gift of renew, summoning 5 pixies will cause no amount of head aches and often my kills are made with these, then there is two important spells that you should use, thunderstorm and Essance of wind, these two little spells will mess up your enemies FC and FCR add that to the pixies and your enemy will always be disrupted and it is very very useful against mystics. And my template is thus, 120 mage, 120 wrestle, 120 weave, 120 med, 120 eval, gm alch, then 20 ninja with 30 on my jewle set

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#11
Spankwich

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Yelena what do u do with 50 ninjitsu? What are you using it for?

spellweave can very handy in a field fight, attunement is helpful in a gank with lvl 6 focus as can gift of renew, summoning 5 pixies will cause no amount of head aches and often my kills are made with these, then there is two important spells that you should use, thunderstorm and Essance of wind, these two little spells will mess up your enemies FC and FCR add that to the pixies and your enemy will always be disrupted and it is very very useful against mystics. And my template is thus, 120 mage, 120 wrestle, 120 weave, 120 med, 120 eval, gm alch, then 20 ninja with 30 on my jewle set



#12
McNuge

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If you have parry, do you get the benefit of your DCI? Or do you also have to have say wrestling or a Mage weapon?

#13
Belanos

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you need a weapon skill or wrestling to take advantage of parrying, but DCI will always benefit a mage even without a mage wep or wrestling or whatever, because of the base defensive skill provided by eval.
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#14
Yelena

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the reason for 50 ninja is this, you get dismounted cast mirror images to help boost up defence along side 120 weave, 120 wrestle and dci, wait for the dismount thing to go then mount up again... i play a very very defencive style,and if i am with a team of people or strike up a temp allince on the field with other players then i prefere to play the damage soak, i know with myself that i can take and heal up one hell of alot of damage and still survive, while they are consentrating on me my allies can then focus on dealing with the enemy.

my pvp mages stats are this 100 30 150 without buffs, i chug a strength pot with 80ep and thats something around 115ish hp and that seems to be enough for me

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#15
McNuge

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you need a weapon skill or wrestling to take advantage of parrying, but DCI will always benefit a mage even without a mage wep or wrestling or whatever, because of the base defensive skill provided by eval.


Thank you for your response. I'm sorry but I'll just have to clarify what you said so I can fully understand the mechanics of how this works.

So DCI will always work because of the base defense that evaluate intelligence gives. However, in order for parry to work properly you have to have a weapon skill, wrestling or a Mage weapon?? Is that why most pvp mages carry a Mage weapon? Does parry really not work on it's own? The reason I wish to clarify is because I want to be able to hold a book and have the use of my shield instead of just the mods that it gives. My temp would look something like:

Mage 120
Evaluate 120
Med 120
Parry 120
Resist 120
Weaving 120

And I'd be holding a book and shield. Would this work? Or would I either have to a) drop the book and pick up a Mage wep or B) drop a skill and pick up wrestling? Thanks again for you input. Sorry for my lack of knowledge but it just seems that there are a lot of rules about game mechanics that aren't officially documented anywhere. Like no where does it say that parrying doesn't work without also having a weapon skill.

#16
Belanos

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Thank you for your response. I'm sorry but I'll just have to clarify what you said so I can fully understand the mechanics of how this works.

So DCI will always work because of the base defense that evaluate intelligence gives. However, in order for parry to work properly you have to have a weapon skill, wrestling or a Mage weapon?? Is that why most pvp mages carry a Mage weapon? Does parry really not work on it's own? The reason I wish to clarify is because I want to be able to hold a book and have the use of my shield instead of just the mods that it gives. My temp would look something like:

Mage 120
Evaluate 120
Med 120
Parry 120
Resist 120
Weaving 120

And I'd be holding a book and shield. Would this work? Or would I either have to a) drop the book and pick up a Mage wep or B) drop a skill and pick up wrestling? Thanks again for you input. Sorry for my lack of knowledge but it just seems that there are a lot of rules about game mechanics that aren't officially documented anywhere. Like no where does it say that parrying doesn't work without also having a weapon skill.


All DCI does is lower your chance to be hit. With no defensive ability at all, your chance to be hit is already near 100%, so a 45% increase of 1% isn't going to help. But a 120 eval mage has the equivalent of 80 wrestling, so a chance to be hit of closer to 60/70% or something, depending on the opponent. This makes a 45% increase in DCI a lot more useful.

For parrying, I mistyped last night. You don't need a weapon skill to parry, but you do need higher dexterity to make it worthwhile. The formula for parrying with a shield is (parrying skill / 4) * ([80 - dexterity ] / 100) if your dex is lower than 80, or (parrying skill / 4), with a +5% chance at 120 parrying.

So, at 80 dexterity and 120 parrying, for example, you'll parry 35% of the time, which isn't too bad. But if you go down to, say, 50 dexterity, your chance goes down to 26%.

So it really depends on how much dexterity you can fit on your template, and what you consider an acceptable chance to parry for the skill point cost.

Of course, if you pick up wrestling as well as parry, your chance to block goes way up - first you have the chance to block an attack with your regular wrestling ability, and then if that chance fails you can still pull off a parry.
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#17
liquidsmoke

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Parry will work with or without a weapon skill, at 120 parry and 80 Dex you have a 35% chance to block with a shield, this is triggered separatly from weapon defense. That being said, you will only trigger parry defense with your proposed template.

Anatomy and Eval Int have to equal 220 for defensive evasion similar to wrestling. The advantage to doing this over 120 wrestling is you get to save 20 points, which can be a lot for certain templates. However anat/eval doesn't allow you to use the wrestling specials, disarm/para blow, so there is a trade-off. The reason people use mage weapons over parry is for a solid "free" defense, since a -20 penalty to magery can be made up easily and it requires no skill points, and it is "better" then parry alone, and usually allows for pot chugging. Parry and anat/eval,wrestle or a mage weapon is the best defense available, and will provide awesome defense vs dexxers. Usually tho if you are high on defense you are low on offense.

If you want to use a book you will need anatomy/eval or wrestle in order to trigger a significant enough defense to not get shredded by dexxers. Parry will provide some defense but not enough to counter not having a weapon skill or a mage weapon. If you use a mage weapon tho you are disarm bait, and once disarmed you will loose all your defense, where anat/eval or wrestle is constant defense and can never be "lost".

Before mage weapons really caught on I had a parry scribe mage who ran a mage weapon and I had some incredible defense with power, however once disarmed even with 120 parry and high dex (need 80 dex for full benefits of parry) I was often killed. Once the mage weapon caught on, and people started using them to chug potions my template became outdated and I switched, but it was awesome to watch a dexxer whiff 8 times in a row while I unloaded huge scribe combos.

#18
McNuge

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Thanks guys, Im really starting to catch on now. The only thing I can't figure out is where does that info come from. I can't find anywhere that says what kind of base defense you have with a weapon skill or wrestling. Where does it say that if you have a combined total of 220 in anatomy and eval that you get the same combat defensiveness as having 120 wrestling? Where does it differentiate between weapon defense and parry defense?

Thanks again for your help though I really do appreciate it. I will be reconsidering a final template. I may just end up building 2 suits, 1 for pvp and 1 for pvm, and then just stone the skills that I wanna switch out whenever i need to.

#19
Belanos

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Thanks guys, Im really starting to catch on now. The only thing I can't figure out is where does that info come from. I can't find anywhere that says what kind of base defense you have with a weapon skill or wrestling. Where does it say that if you have a combined total of 220 in anatomy and eval that you get the same combat defensiveness as having 120 wrestling? Where does it differentiate between weapon defense and parry defense?

Thanks again for your help though I really do appreciate it. I will be reconsidering a final template. I may just end up building 2 suits, 1 for pvp and 1 for pvm, and then just stone the skills that I wanna switch out whenever i need to.


Formulas come out in interviews, five on fridays, and other updates. There's no central repository of 'official' information, but places like uoguide.com and stratics generally have the relevant skill formulas.

And, parry defense is separate from weapon defense. If you are capable of both then you get both. Wrestling is considered a weapon defense.
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#20
McNuge

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ahh, OK. I'm gonna start reading through the archives then and check out some stuff that I missed during my break from UO. Thanks again for being patient with me. I guess I should have known I could look some stuff up in the herald archives. You've been extremely helpful.