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Why UO will never be mainstream...

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78 replies to this topic

#41
Tancred RedStar

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I'm no programmer, but Im sure there's a hurdle to jump in terms of loading extra frames into memory, plus it would be a slog of coding all the equivalents resource id's. Not saying it can't be done, but it would certainly be some work. Then again, after all the time blown on Third Dawn, and now EC which is still close but not there, what's throwing another log on the fire?

See, that is a great idea. I'm not a developer, but it seems there isn't a huge reason they couldn't have a legacy graphics toggle. I imagine it might disable something like zooming in/out, but a classic client player probably doesn't want that anyhow.


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#42
Kaelyn

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What Yelena said.

They have to decide. The classic client keeps vets, but the new client makes the game a LOT easier to get new players in.

There is a ton of stuff in the old client that is definitely not very intuitive. Such as the targeting macros, and having to fill your chat bar with mindless gibberish to cast spells.

(Sorry, one of the things that absolutely drives me up the wall, are people who spam spells when they talk. ARGH.)


Who of the developers actually had the bright idea to cancel the UO newbie dungeon? That showed at least some of the basics of UO...

#43
Gnomy

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We shouldnt forget, in UO we play alone in a world of players... We can do about everything with one char.

When all new MMOs focus on group experience. UO has tried to adopt this concept, since it is the way to go. Sadly its not that easy to add to UO.

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#44
Evolus

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Honestly, if it means bringing in new players or letting the game slowly die then I say cancel 2D. You vets can go play freeshards. :X

I hate to say it, but times change. I know Yelena likes how macros work in UOAssist or Razor. However, remember that pushing a button is just pushing a button. The developers could add in the buy/sell agent and all of that.

UO needs to do something. Times are changing and unless you started playing UO in 1997 or you are 50 years of age or older the classic client just doesnt cut it.

I love UO PvP, and that is the only reason I Play this game. I am rare in that I have only been playing a couple years, and actually started playing other games like Lotro, Eve, etc... first.

I'm tired of the only stable client in UO being the 2D client. I hate having to set my 24" monitor to 1080 resolution just to play a game. This game offers alot.

The ironic thing about all of this is most pvpers I know that use illegal third party apps only stick with 2D because of those 3rd party apps. However, the people that love 2D don't use the third party apps but complain about cheating the most.

Obviously the enhanced client graphics suck. You know why 2ders? Because the enhanced client uses 2D graphics on almost everything.

I mean in the least at least make a high resolution 2D client. I wonder how many people would complain then?

#45
Corvak

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I don't use the classic client because a 800x600 game window looks darn small with a desktop resolution of 1920x1080.

Gnomy does have a point, but group content is awkward to balance. Final Fantasy XI forces you to group, and its an agonizing process of waiting around FOREVER until you find someone your level. And then you can't just go do stuff IRL without having to leave and start that process all over again.

I think the WoWs and the LOTROs have it about right. Mostly soloable content in the world, with group dungeons.

@Kaelyn: Destroying Haven is the single dumbest move EA has EVER taken with UO. They got rid of all of those nice newbie quests for a bunch of arbitrary grinds.

#46
Venomusmc

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Personally I wish they would make the 2d game high resolution kind of like diablo (not the same graphic style but that higher end graphics). Then I wish they would improve the UI or allow mods or whatever to the classic client.
Problem is that's a whole lot of money redoing all those art pieces but that would get a lot of new customers just making the game look nearly as good as Diablo heck even Diablo 2.

#47
facattac

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Long thread, not going to read it all...

Maybe its some sort of legal problems with that I don't know but I personally find that more appearling that Todd McFarlene robots running Sosaria.


The thing with UO: Lord Blackthorne's Revenge, if you recall, was that Todd McFarlane was tasked with helping them do UO 2. EA decided they didn't want the original game competing with a sequel so they canned that idea and Origin was forced to put the upgrades into an expansion.

In my opinion that was the last great expansion. It introduced 2D players to the world of Illshenar (Illsh). Anyhow not that the other expansions don't have merits BUT Age of Shadows (AOS) pretty much reamed the whole game. Every time I see the initials B - O - D I feel like screaming. I could care less about them. I have a plain old GM smith and that's the highest I really feel like taking that particular skill.

True, every expansion just seems to make the world bigger, giving us new dungeons to explore and more places reds are not allowed to tread. :( It rhymed and I didn't mean to... I don't know if adding champ spawns to Fel improved things or not but atleast it wasn't wiped from the servers since having an exact copy of the Tram facet doesn't make any sense having. The devs thankfully got rid of the kicking of ghosts out of Fel dungeons as that was stupid and insipid.

Personally I'm rather apathetic. Very few guilds I try to join these days if any seem interested in Fel at all and not in Champ Spawns. A few years ago I rolled with the Great Lakes guild Fifteen Warriors and had tons of fun. But I xfered my PVP character outta there onto my main shard of Atlantic and honestly find nothing fun about that shard. If I ever log in, I just hang at Luna trying to sell my mediocre merch. I don't do dungeons, I bore easily of trying the new skills... FEH!

EDIT: HD graphics???? DOUBLE FEH!
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#48
Venomusmc

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I am aware of where the mechanical crap came from and understand why, however I believe the theme doesn't fit UO and Blackthorn being Robocop is pretty weird. I was never a huge fan of Ish but do think it was a step ahead of T2A and their early attempt st 3d terrain. On a side note I went AFK in my house and came back dead today... PKed by a player while I was on the roof of a Keep .. Oh the player was casting on me and wasn't friended or anything. Needless to say that's the kind of stuff that kills UO's playerbase
pure griefing. The player gained nothing from killing my afk character besides a grin from being an !!!
Just like how you can work a spawn and a lone blue forces himself grey to exploit a gaming mechanic. UO has a very active minority that sets out to ruin the game for others and has cost the servers so many players over the years.

#49
Adam

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Personally I wish they would make the 2d game high resolution kind of like diablo (not the same graphic style but that higher end graphics). Then I wish they would improve the UI or allow mods or whatever to the classic client.
Problem is that's a whole lot of money redoing all those art pieces but that would get a lot of new customers just making the game look nearly as good as Diablo heck even Diablo 2.


If they'd have done that, rather than wasting customers money on two failed 2.5D client, UO probably would be mainstream.
Especially if the art was the quality seen/made by Saphireena

#50
sablestorm

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As a player since Beta, I'll say unequivocally, I'm glad it's not mainstream. Let the idiots go play the mainstream games. I'm quite content with the great people I have in my alliance, thank you very much.

#51
Kaelyn

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Felucca has the problem of being very cut throat.
EVE solved it better with varying degrees of danger without being totally safe anywhere.

It is hard to say what way a popularmmo game should have gone to keep all sort of players.

Shadowbane and darkfall both cater to the pvp mostly. They have hardly any murdering restrictions.
Mortal onlyine is too buggy to cater to anyone.
EVE I think has also no murdering restrictions or?

#52
GregorLassant

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Honestly, if it means bringing in new players or letting the game slowly die then I say cancel 2D. You vets can go play freeshards. :X

I hate to say it, but times change. I know Yelena likes how macros work in UOAssist or Razor. However, remember that pushing a button is just pushing a button. The developers could add in the buy/sell agent and all of that.

UO needs to do something. Times are changing and unless you started playing UO in 1997 or you are 50 years of age or older the classic client just doesnt cut it.

I love UO PvP, and that is the only reason I Play this game. I am rare in that I have only been playing a couple years, and actually started playing other games like Lotro, Eve, etc... first.

I'm tired of the only stable client in UO being the 2D client. I hate having to set my 24" monitor to 1080 resolution just to play a game. This game offers alot.

The ironic thing about all of this is most pvpers I know that use illegal third party apps only stick with 2D because of those 3rd party apps. However, the people that love 2D don't use the third party apps but complain about cheating the most.

Obviously the enhanced client graphics suck. You know why 2ders? Because the enhanced client uses 2D graphics on almost everything.

I mean in the least at least make a high resolution 2D client. I wonder how many people would complain then?


You're keeping it real, which is harsh, but I agree for the most part. Its awesome that UOA was made, but the whole point of UOA is that it facilitates play because of the awkwardness of the classic client. Why should I have to pay for something just so I can do basic game functions reasonably quickly without having the dexterity of a juggler and giving myself repetitive strain injuries. Don't get me wrong, I have no trouble with UOA itself, and I hope he made a ton of money on it. However, using UOA as an excuse to continue with with the classic client just doesn't make any senese. I think it should be noted that one of the things I was worried about when reactivating my account was that I couldn't find my UOA info and would have to buy it again. However, I found that the EC allows me to do things in the same manner UOA did. If EC wasn't available, I may not have reactivated my account, which would be one more fewer customer for EA/Mythic.

UO has the potential to have the most interesting PvP of any game out there, even if the majority of the player population will never be interested. However, with all the cheats out there, including a bug that supposedly exists that allows you to loot insured items, people just aren't going to risk it. I've been lead to understand that EC has fewer holes than the classic client.

I am aware of where the mechanical crap came from and understand why, however I believe the theme doesn't fit UO and Blackthorn being Robocop is pretty weird. I was never a huge fan of Ish but do think it was a step ahead of T2A and their early attempt st 3d terrain. On a side note I went AFK in my house and came back dead today... PKed by a player while I was on the roof of a Keep .. Oh the player was casting on me and wasn't friended or anything. Needless to say that's the kind of stuff that kills UO's playerbase
pure griefing. The player gained nothing from killing my afk character besides a grin from being an !!!
Just like how you can work a spawn and a lone blue forces himself grey to exploit a gaming mechanic. UO has a very active minority that sets out to ruin the game for others and has cost the servers so many players over the years.


I'm not sure I agree that the science fiction elements are out of theme for UO. I do not particularly care for the way they planned to implement it in UO2, but I don't think those elements themselves are that odd. The first Ultima games required you to use science fiction game elements to finish the game, and U3 implied that Exodus was some sort of machine/demon hybrid. Even as late as U7 Part 2, the mage city had magical automatons for labor.

Your incident in your keep is regrettable. However, were you in line of sight on top of the keep? I'm not trying to be a jerk, and I think the individual that did that doesn't impress me because he can defeat someone who isn't fighting back, but should you have gone afk where someone was capable of seeing you while you were in Fel? I don't know how housing works in regards to someone casting into the house, but I don't see any reason why it shouldn't be allowed under normal rules ( Like line of sight ). I mean, the guy who did it is unquestionably an asshat, and probably not that good at actual PvP, but was he cheating? I'm not seeing that as an exploit.

As far as blue PKs, they've existed since the flagging system went live. I think it is incredibly poor form, but I don't see how they're going to get around it. Computers just can't make judgement calls about morality, they can simply say who hit who when.

As a player since Beta, I'll say unequivocally, I'm glad it's not mainstream. Let the idiots go play the mainstream games. I'm quite content with the great people I have in my alliance, thank you very much.


I don't think its a question of going mainstream, its a question of survival. Getting new players doesn't imply going mainstream. I have no desire to see UO turn into a 2d WoW. That said, UO is going to need to attract players to stay alive. That can be accomplished with a client that is easy to use without spending money on a third party program, and appropriate advertising like banner ads, digital distribution, and perhaps some sort of alternative to the subscription model. I don't believe having 13 year old technology is as big a problem as many people think, as there are plenty of games out there that have done quite well with 2d graphics and small development teams.

#53
Kaelyn

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There is diablo 3 with an isometric view and some say the game Linkrealms might be similar to UO which also has an isometric view.

Full 3d is overrated for mmos. It is necessary with shooters, but in an rpg I do not see the necessity.

#54
facattac

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Well anyway, why EA let the devs work on side-projects is beyond me, but they did. The Origin staff may have been denied UO2 and Ultima X: Odyssey even though Sony successfully maintains the old EverQuest and EverQuest II; BUT Mythic was allowed to continue launching their project Warhammer Online.

Did Warhammer Online and Dark Age of Camelot compete with UO? Yes. Were they canned? Heck no! So basically EA has its buttowski in the wrong side of their head. It's unfair to have a double-standard.

WO was and is a MMO that takes the PVP aspect of WOW and simplifies it to a point of great delivery. Each realm has the opposing factions start on opposite ends of the map and joins them right in the center.
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#55
Kaelyn

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It was rather why did EA allow the developers to work on UO when they had huge plans for Warhammer.

At one point they were considering cancelling UO


Actually if EA would market UO as sims 4 with added combat and manage a graphical overhaul for SIMS players it might manage mainstream

#56
Corvak

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The former president of Mythic actually argued with them to keep it, it was going to be cancelled.

It could fall into the same problem again - not that it isnt profitable - it does turn a profit - but that some bigshot business type will think that the staff and facilities might better be used developing something else.

#57
Calis M^N

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you see this is what i dont get...
EA obviously bought/took it on.. they are hardly going to take it on when its loosing money....

you would think as a company they would try to give each project the best possible chance.... its clear they havnt tried every avenue...

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#58
Gnomy

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Erm, EA had it since 98 or 99 forgot the year they bought Origin who made UO

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#59
Calis M^N

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lol has it seriously been that long hehe
doesnt feel like it

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#60
Kaelyn

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The former president of Mythic actually argued with them to keep it, it was going to be cancelled.

It could fall into the same problem again - not that it isnt profitable - it does turn a profit - but that some bigshot business type will think that the staff and facilities might better be used developing something else.


What choice did he have.
He was president over UO/DAOC/Pogo? and a developing Warhammer

Sure he insisted to have UO continue