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Why UO will never be mainstream...

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78 replies to this topic

#21
Gnomy

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The best MMO ive played from the "new" ones.. is DAoC.

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#22
Anira Cuilwen

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I haven't found anything that could compete with uo at all.

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#23
GregorLassant

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DAoC is great, and WAR was going very well until this last patch.

#24
Thumper

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I may be able to offer some insight on some of these...

Your *never* safe in the game... ever. There are so many exploits/cheats/scams etc that any new players doesn't stand a chance.

Yea, I agree. I once went AFK in game, and somebody from my guild/alliance killed me. Came back, and I'm dead. I'm like WTF? It was a guildie that asked in guild chat who I was an alt of. And they were *very* drunk. But yes, you are correct, never safe in the game.


1st off I used to love UO pvp. Now I think it's pathetic. Why? You almost have to cheat to be a high tier player.

I used to like it too - back when blacksmiths and other professions were useful (NOT saying they aren't now, just saying back in the day when it was more useful)

UO's updates are not well thought out:

Agreed, but thinking of it from a corporate aspect, they did get your $$ (not mine... yet) They had a short deadline, and needed to get something out. They did what they could. Was it the best that they could do with a limited team? Yes. Could it be improved or better, Yes.

Why are they continuing to add new lands when the player base is so far spread apart as it is?


They are catering to the Bartle Test - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia@@AMEPARAM@@/wiki/File:Question_book-new.svg" class="image"><img alt="Question book-new.svg" src="http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/9/99/Question_book-new.svg/50px-Question_book-new.svg.png"@@AMEPARAM@@en/thumb/9/99/Question_book-new.svg/50px-Question_book-new.svg.png in a way, as well as adding housing space. On top of that, they probably have specific designers still employed that know how to make land mass's v/s systems and such. And, to be honest - let's compare to your WoW experiences - You'd love to see what new MOB's and lands are around. I understand your concerns about this - but for them, it gets people in and works.


Most of UO (on apparently anything other than Atl) is a ghost town. Cities are completely empty, the only place to see people is Luna or at a focus at WBB it appears. Why not revamp places that are largely unused to make more use out of them?

Got to agree here. The reason? IMO it happened when they did the invasions of the towns (WBB Lizardman invasion comes to mind) and everything went to hell. Bad design decision. Luna became basically free of harm, access to a bunch of vendors, so why not go there?

Giant turkeys? Awesome thanks got it.. it's Thanksgiving errrr was. Yet there are turkeys running around the entire world.

Just taking a guess, and probably wrong, but they could be left over spawn - I'd think they'd reset after a server reset, but who knows. It's UO.

However not enabling bird slayers at the very least since you wiped out the use of their respective slayer seems to be a bonehead move to me.

I totally agree!

I wonder sometimes what goes on at their meetings... and if they have any sort of afterthought process at all.

I'm guessing, that they are like "Hey, let's make this hard so it requires a group effort" - trying to get people to get together, group play, and such. Kinda like they did with the new white fishing net champ thing (They warned that it may be too hard)

Maybe its some sort of legal problems with that I don't know but I personally find that more appearling that Todd McFarlene robots running Sosaria.

Well, think of it this way - UO2 (or whatever people want to call it) had modeled, animated, etc. the Meer & Juka - and wanted to re-use it. Can't fault them from re-using that stuff...

Why can I solo the Stygian Dragon? Is it fun sure... do I do it? Absolutely. However there isn't anything in the game from what I've seen that would require more than 2-3 players.

post template, because I'd love to see how you can solo everything

UO's economy... well it's a joke. People have over a billion gold and I honestly don't see it ever getting fixed so a million gold isn't a joke.

yes, the economy is a joke, BUT, .... I have nothing. I tried playing on a new shard, and it's rough without help. Fortunately there are some players that will help.

This has been a long rant for me but it's beyond simply annoying the circle of mistakes made by revolving dev teams.

Yea, I think that is the problem - you hit the nail on the head. Everybody has their own ideas, on how to make things better. Has that happened for UO? IMO no. They should have left a lot of things alone. Systems, yes - they did a good job. Fixing black holes? excellent - new skills - eh? I'm on the fence of that... Really requires a good designer to balance everything. A *LOT* of variables when it comes to UO.

however I think if they'd think things through a little more and maybe just maybe test things? Well that'd make the game a lot smoother.

Just thinking - do they really have that type of manpower? Do they get that type of feedback from TC - and if they do, is it really reported? Just wondering... I could probably name off a dozen bugs easy (ok, going on my own rant) that could be fixed. Stacking things would be at the top of the list.

To summarize Ultima Online can be a great game its a shame too much of the player base are worthless degenerates and actually drove quite a few people out of the game they play.

I somewhat agree with this statement. I mean, I log onto mutiple shards and see so much smack-talk in general, makes me think of the barrens in WoW... but normally they shut up after a bit.

You brought up some great points, and hope you don't mind my .02ยข

#25
Llewen

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I haven't read the entire thread, but I'll just repeat at least one thing that was said. The enhanced client is your friend. I use the enhanced client, and even though I am sure a lot of pvp'rs are using speed hacks, there is only one person who can even keep up with me, and that is another guy with a really good computer running the enhanced client. And again, just to be clear, the enhanced client (EC) doesn't actually give you a higher top speed than the classic client, but it handles lag better, it has auto avoid for obstacles, and it transitions across server boundaries faster, so in the final analysis if your computer can handle it and you are running the EC, you will always outrun someone running the classic client.

Beyond that there are so many other small advantages to using the EC. One huge one for me is that I can use the thumb joystick on my G13 game board to control my movement. No more of that ridiculously awkward mouse controlled movement. It makes a huge difference. And if you are using the EC I would highly recommend Pinco's UI. It has a ton of little enhancements that make the EC all that much better.

I don't cheat in pvp, and I never have, but I can compete with the best in pvp, in part due to the EC. And just to be clear, I do this on a two year old computer that was an entry level gaming rig when it was first put together, and I'm not rich - I doubt that I have 10 mil in gold total between my two accounts, and the total value of my two accounts combined is probably significantly less than 500 mil (that may sound like a lot to a new or returning player, but trust me, it isn't, you can easily make that much in a few months with a little bit of luck and I've been playing for a total of over seven years).

It is entirely possible to be competitive and have a ton of fun without cheating, or being fabulously rich (either in real or game currency).

#26
Corvak

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This is very true. The EC is just more memory-efficient as a whole. I'll be blunt. A lot of vets tend to be stubborn and vehemently against change. Any change. This is natural among computer users, everyone resists change to a certain degree.

Having to retain the old client is holding EA back, and coding for two clients sucks up money that could be better spent on new content. But EA can't just cut off the old client, as many of the veterans would leave. It's a catch-22 they really have no way out of, and content will continue to cost twice as much and take twice as long to implement because of it.

Many dislike the EC because many of its features mimic WoW and the other modern MMOs. Well honestly, the game is still UO. It's still that uniquely open world where we tell the story. The UI in WoW and all the other games is like that because it works. It lets us bind keys without having to say random gibberish. And it lets us modify it within the bounds of EA's guidelines via Lua scripting. And finally, it's secure and much much harder to cheat with.

Everyone should just try it for a couple weeks.

(I wish I knew that trick to making 500mil, i'm perpetually broke in this game!)

#27
Kaelyn

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Can you tell me things EA could do better with the EC?

Monster AI?
PvP balancing?
Factions?
Event Storylines?

The things they could do easier is add graphics , that I agree upon.
For the rest ... :reye

#28
Llewen

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Can you tell me things EA could do better with the EC?

The things they could do easier is add graphics , that I agree upon.
For the rest ... :reye


Actually adding graphical content is pretty important. For example if all they had had to worry about was the EC they probably would have had a much easier time with ships and the smooth ship movement, in fact the whole High Seas booster would have been a lot easier and we could well have gotten more content included with it.

And security is pretty important as well. If all they had to worry about was the EC third party cheat detection would probably have been a hell of a lot easier, and other anti-cheat measures such as file consistency checks would also be easier. Also if everyone was using the EC you'd probably hear a lot fewer complaints about speed hacking.

#29
GregorLassant

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As a veteran player (1998), I can say that my thoughts on the EC when I came back were very positive, and included wondering where this has been for the last thirteen years. This isn't the clunky, awkward client with the comically ugly 3d models I was expecting from my experiences with the third dawn client. This isn't an attempt to force 3d into a 2d game. EC has real functional improvements over all of the previous cclients, which have already been mentioned. I don't like to presume i know the thoughts of others, but I can't help but wonder if some players opposition to the EC is really just resistance to any sort of change, rather than any specific issues with the client. One very nice thing about EC is that for several control options, there is a legacy toggle. I couldn't get used to the mmo targeting, so after I nuked myself for the thirtieth time I switched to legacy targeting.

Lets face it, the first years of UO are never coming back. Those times were as much a product of the players and the times as much as anything about the game itself. Were they really all that great, or is this a case of viewing the past through the rose tinted glasses of nostalgia. You actually have a variety of templates that are viable, rather than one. You have houses that can't be broken into and robbed of your possessions. You have weapons and armour now that are interesting rather than consisting of single variables like an armor value or damage value. And as far as the trammel split, well....I hear people ask for classic servers all the time, but I never see vast numbers of players flocking to felluca. In fact, my impression is that the majority of people left for greener pastures as soon as trammel came out. I can only conclude that those wanting a pre UOR environment are a very vocal minority. The fact is that pvp should have been limited to consent from the very beginning. The fact that someone as obviously intelligent as the RG would design a game with the ability to anonymously hurt people on the internet then expect the problem to resolve itself boggles the mind. You don't have to be cynical to realize that when given the chance to anonymously hurt people, profit by it, and not deal with the consequences, many people will take advantage of it.

Im sorry if I offend anyone, but keeping it real is something I can't help. I believe that veterans who refuse to accept any change in UO just because it is change are hurting the game we all enjoy.

#30
Corvak

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It's not that stuff is harder with classic client and EC, it's that it has to be done twice, and they have to make the two clients work with each other.

Monster AI: They have to design monsters that users of both clients have an equal difficulty when fighting.

PvP Balancing: Where each client uses a different macro system, they must ensure that they do not favor one or the other when considering how the two clients should interact with each other and the game server in a PvP situation.

Factions: see above.

Event Storylines are the one thing that isn't affected by clients, as they're driven using the other elements above. Monster AI, NPC reactions, live player events, etc.

#31
Kaelyn

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Regarding Monster Ai: UO is in the 'Stone Age' of monster Ai in most parts. Giving them more HP and resists is not how you make fights more interesting.
Interestingly they have some ideas like the Orc Brute who can spawn Orcs, Bog thing that heals itself by consuming Boglings and such stuff. These are the things they should work on moreand maybe have some more spoosibilities in how to fight certain monsters.

For the 2 clients that is the graphics sections. I hope they do not need to code, though it would explain some things.

I must confess though that I have not killed a highend Monster since AOS came out so I can only go from what I read on the boards.

PvP and factions have nothing to do with the clients. Since when does the UO team care if one client is overpowered?
They have to juggle numbers and see if they can remotely get some balance and that is all

Event storyline is what interns should be used for, as it is mostly not so tough to set spawners and design some places. If there is some coding to be done I am sure it has been done somewhere before anyway and would need to be copy/pasted.


Thing is I hear Asherons call has an ongoing storyline each month for years... and UO which is a 'boring' sandbox if you do not add players and storyline in the mix manages a storyline at a snails pace and so convuluted that you need a wiki to make heads or tails of it.


In my opinion UO was always less about the graphics, but about the stories the game could tell or the possibilities of the stories I can tell in these settings. My possibilities to tell stories are limited, but what is the developers excuse?

#32
Llewen

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It's not that stuff is harder with classic client and EC, it's that it has to be done twice, and they have to make the two clients work with each other.


Not to be argumentative, but it is actually both. Yes they have to do some things twice, but I've also heard the devs say more than once that the classic client is harder to work with. A lot of advances have been made with software design and engineering in the past thirteen years that have made newer software easier to work with from the perspective of a developer.

#33
Yelena

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i can agree with one comment... and that is if they drop classic I know of alot of vets, myself included (been playing uo since day 1) that will leave... EC just looks like turd imo

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#34
Corvak

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What Yelena said.

They have to decide. The classic client keeps vets, but the new client makes the game a LOT easier to get new players in.

There is a ton of stuff in the old client that is definitely not very intuitive. Such as the targeting macros, and having to fill your chat bar with mindless gibberish to cast spells.

(Sorry, one of the things that absolutely drives me up the wall, are people who spam spells when they talk. ARGH.)

#35
Llewen

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There is a ton of stuff in the old client that is definitely not very intuitive. Such as... having to fill your chat bar with mindless gibberish to cast spells.


Actually you don't have to. I know I never did when I used the CC. I had all my macros on ctrl-shift combinations and the ctrl and alt keys prevent other keys from being entered as chat. That was one of the things that was such a wrench for me when I came back. I now use a game board and the desktop to play the game, and it took me a very long time to get used to not having to press the ctrl-shift combination all the time. :)

#36
Tancred RedStar

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I agree with Yelena on the 2D client and vets. I've been playing well over a decade now and the 2D client is just part of how I see the world. On the other hand, I'm sure it's fairly antiquated under the hood. If they really wanted to get player buy-in, or at least work something feasible to get rid of the 2D client, they could port the game graphics and some of the gumps to EC so it looks the same. EC looks and feels more modern, and that's great for new players or those who don't mind making the jump, but I just can't stomach the transition. If it at least appeared the same while in game I wouldn't mind at all, there could even be a toggle to display classic or new graphics. The devs have already made some concessions towards this with containers/vendors, etc.

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#37
GregorLassant

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i can agree with one comment... and that is if they drop classic I know of alot of vets, myself included (been playing uo since day 1) that will leave... EC just looks like turd imo



As a veteran player myself, I don't see the argument as to why the EC is so bad. Its more moddable, I'm told, which seems to me something that will only increase the amount of community involvement in UO.

How does the EC look like a turd? As far as what it looks like, it looks to me very much like the classic client. If you don't like the backpack gumps, for instance, you can always switch to legacy settings. The character models look at least as good as the old ones, which, lets face it, aren't that great to start with. I believe that I can get many people to agree with me that they're certainly better than those ugly 3d models in 3rd dawn client.

Regardless of what client you use, it is still the same game. You still have your house, your characters, and posessions. The math on the skills works exactly the same.

I think that the MMO targeting sucks, so I switched to legacy. Other people might not think so, but what is so beautiful about it is that the software gives you a choice in ONE client. If you don't have to use the MMO targeting, why not have it so that new players will be comfortable starting?

Would you really leave UO if you had to use the EC client? That is fine to say that, but I'd like to know what feature is so bad that you'd quit playing after how ever many years you've played. There certainly isn't anything that I find even that different about EC, let alone something that I'm forced to do which would make me unsatisfied. I can certainly understand being tempted to pack up and leave if you were shoehorned into, say the 3rd dawn client, but is the EC even different enough to justify cancelling, let alone *worse* enough to justify it?

#38
Yelena

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for me i prefere the macro system of uoa, and in game, that is my preferance

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#39
GregorLassant

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I agree with Yelena on the 2D client and vets. I've been playing well over a decade now and the 2D client is just part of how I see the world. On the other hand, I'm sure it's fairly antiquated under the hood. If they really wanted to get player buy-in, or at least work something feasible to get rid of the 2D client, they could port the game graphics and some of the gumps to EC so it looks the same. EC looks and feels more modern, and that's great for new players or those who don't mind making the jump, but I just can't stomach the transition. If it at least appeared the same while in game I wouldn't mind at all, there could even be a toggle to display classic or new graphics. The devs have already made some concessions towards this with containers/vendors, etc.


See, that is a great idea. I'm not a developer, but it seems there isn't a huge reason they couldn't have a legacy graphics toggle. I imagine it might disable something like zooming in/out, but a classic client player probably doesn't want that anyhow.

#40
Tancred RedStar

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All the character animations, while an improvement over Third Dawn, still look contrived or like theyre trying to hard to make a heroic stance 24/7 when they don't look emaciated or sickly. To this day I still cant stand the sight of unicorns. Better they'd just taken the horse model and slapped a big horn on it's forehead and called it a day.

Also, for those joining late in the show, read further back in the thread where it's discussed about 2D vs EC performance on things like serverline crossing, etc.

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