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FORCE PVP

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41 replies to this topic

#1
Dionysus

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Ofcorse there will be people who will dissagree with me on this. But I have played other online games and the problem I have seen is when they create too much player vs enviroment / player vs monster areas. People get bored and go play other games or complain until it is reversed.>:(
I still think UO has what it takes to keep up with the other MMO's. It doesn't need to have fanastic graphics or high volocity action. But in my opinion it needs more pvp.
Everytime you are doing pvm or minning or cutting wood or anything, there should be the feeling that your about to be jumped by a bunch of other people.
LOSE TRAMMEL! get rid of trammel, this game does not need trammel.
its a good bloody game, it just needs to be more exciting. Bring back the people who left, bring new people to the game. come on!
I know I have mentioned the 'free' online game seafight before in other posts, but i do because it is a great example, its a 2D budget looking game, no major moving components but it is popular and a big money maker. on the sever i played on, there was 2 alliance with many guilds in each alliances and an average of 150 - 200 people in each alliances teamspeak(similar to venti), not to mention more members in the games chat and guilds own private teamspeak. If either side calls a war, there can be 150 vs 150 players going at it. Its all about the PVP. Now thats excitment and thats the reason people play and pump 100's or 1000's into this free online game.

In conclusion my thoughts are, get rid of trammel, encourage PVP :stooges:more, maybe have strong holds (that give advantages) that guilds have to protect and can be attacked at anytime or even lose them to other guilds when offline. Don't just let this game die away in the arms of games like WOW. And be disgraced by the people who live for PVM.:naughty:



#2
Corvak

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A lot of the people who left, left because of PvP shenanigans. Too much smacktalk, harassment, and cheating. Newer games have factions that cannot communicate with each other for this reason.

Also, I think this game would lose a LOT of players, who would just give up. All those PvM players would just cancel accounts and leave, and the game would cease to be financially viable.

#3
Dionysus

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ok yea, i understand the cheating side of things. nothing i hate more then scum cheating, wheres the fun and wheres the challange in that?
But a game dying because of pvp??? hmmm... i dont understand how that could happen. All the people who i have talked to that quit, quit around the same time they made tram and fel. Come on lets be honest about this, all the successful online games are full of pvp, you can't tell me it would die because of it.

#4
Tabbitha

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ok yea, i understand the cheating side of things. nothing i hate more then scum cheating, wheres the fun and wheres the challange in that?
But a game dying because of pvp??? hmmm... i dont understand how that could happen. All the people who i have talked to that quit, quit around the same time they made tram and fel. Come on lets be honest about this, all the successful online games are full of pvp, you can't tell me it would die because of it.


As a PvP player,you spend the majority of your time [ I am assuming from your post] in Fel ?

Thats probably why you never saw the point to Trammel,but beleive me when I say Trammel was for tons of players about community and roleplay.

So it did/does play an important part of the game.

I played UO fom about 6 mths before Aos and was JUST about finding my feet when it all got changed.

The changes didnt really interest me though,just as Fel never interested me.

I was [ and still am ] an ardent roleplayer,so Trammel was ideal for me the majority of the time.

I did enjoy the occassional trip to Fel as part of a RP plot and always found it fun to encounter any reds that happened upon and chose to promptly disrupt our scenarios ,*grin*.

When Wow was released a LOT of players did leave to follow that style of game and roleplay was left with some big shoes to fill.

However the downside of the last 5 yrs I spent in UO was exactly as Corvak said "Too much smack talk, harassment, and cheating".

Plus hordes of immature players riding into buildings where RP was going on and spamming nonsense,riding over tables etc,and completely ruining others playstyle.

Sometimes the shard GM [ as they were called then] would arrange or join in a RP event,but as soon as word got around he was there ,again crowds of players would turn up and just spam the screens and harrass everyone.

I now play LOTRO and i love it apart from I miss roleplaying like back in UO.

However I dont miss the cheaters,spammers,dupers and immature payers who imo totally ruined the game.

EA chose those sort of people to cater too.I say that because it still goes on whilst RP dwindles each week.

I LOVED UO,and it took me a long time to completely 'sever' my ties with it.

I would of loved nothing more than to of stayed playing it and would still be doing so today if EA had given the love that was needed to certain issues.

So while many,many players did leave over Trammel, i think a lot more have left in the 10 yrs since for other reasons.

So i will have to agree but disagree at the same time,on that point.:)

I do however agree with

..... maybe have strong holds (that give advantages) that guilds have to protect and can be attacked at anytime or even lose them to other guilds when offline.

Not sure if you know about 'creeps and freeps' in Lotro but thats exactly what happens there.

We have strongholds which we fight for control of and depending who 'wins' a red or blue flag appears at the keep.

Some nights I have logged to see all the keeps with blue flags,only to find them all red the next day :)

It is fun and would be a great addition to UO if they had designated areas to accomodate that aspect of play .

Lets hope the 'team' that make the decisions now,do something to revitalise the game again and we can see people coming back to enjoy it once more

[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]


#5
Gnomy

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I know what you mean, the thing with uo and pvp is that. UO always had a bad PVP community. The mentally age in UO pvp is VERY low compared to other games. (Yes I know.. I've pvped the bigger part of my UO life.. 11 years)

Since all "Old pvpers" left with AoS, there was another bump in the pvp and the age mentality dropped even more. More smack talk more griefing instead of actually pvping. The new era of uo pvp.

That sadly never changed since then. Even more people quit or began playing pvm instead.
Even with removal of Trammel now. The mentallity would stay.. which would cause even more to quit.

We also need to face it that the pvp side is a minority in mmo, so forcing people is a bad idea.

For big battles.. well they added Factions for that. Which they messed up.

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#6
Corvak

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My own crazy idea will never work because the servers are so established...

But instead of faceting, they should have made some servers fel-only, and some tram-only.

Gnomy: I agree 100%. Even WoW PVP is probably more mature at this point.

Eve Online has an interesting forced PvP aspect. However it has far too much meta-gaming in it, and its a recipe for massive drama.

#7
Dionysus

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Well by the sounds of things, UO has become player vs enviroment and I'm out numbered in my opinions.

I'll admit I havn't been here the whole time for the growth and changes in UO and have only recently come back, but every online game has 1 thing in common, people. In this other game i played a guy always said to me, "there is only 1 thing wrong with this game and it is that people play it."

So smack talk, the maturity level of players, abuse, i have seen it all. I know all about those issues but that is just something that comes with pvp, no escaping it. Thats why you ignore it, i have never allowed smack talk... to ruin a game for me. Theres no need to retaliate or even acknoledge the people who abuse other people etc..

Personally, I thought this game was fine when there was only 1 world. It wasn't that there was pvp constantly but there was always that chance that you could run into someone.

Maybe I shouldn't have come back, maybe UO is just a shadow of its former self. I have so far steered clear of WOW because it doesn't look like my style of game (too many bells and whistles) but just maybe UO has become a player vs computer game and that is it.
And if thats what UO has become all about, I am deeply sadend. :'(

#8
Dionysus

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oh i forgot 1 thing, Gnomy said "we have to face that pvp side is a minority in MMO's? I have played MMO's that are all about pvp. You only fight npcs to get what you need for the pvp.

#9
Corvak

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The big ones are EVE Online, Warhammer Online, and Age of Conan.

All of them have very good PVP systems. WAR is a ton of fun pvping, but the city sieges are kinda meh... Conan has crazy epic keep battles that I think are awesome, but it's lacking other content.

The AoC keeps are much like what you mention with fortresses, where guilds siege each other, and winning means benefits while you hold the objective :)

But I think Gnomy refers to how these games don't have nearly as many players as games like WoW, which is largely PvE (though I find non-arena PvP fun in WoW).

I think your fortress idea is great, it's like defending champion spawns, but with more of a point. Their benefit needs to be such that all the PvP guilds would want one.

#10
Sineal Walker

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I remember when Trammel was first introduced. I liked PvP but had been griefed a few times so was ambivilant about it. However when I saw the tone of the most anti-Trammel people who complained on Stratics, I began to support it. Most of them had the attitude that it was their god given right to grief 'filthy n00bs' and were obviously very upset that Trammel would allow people who didn't want to be griefed to avoid it. Some of them actually admitted that they only gained pleasure from killing/dry looting/smack talking new players specifically as their greeting to the game, and complained that killing people who voluntarily chost to fight was just not fun.

The problem is Richard Garriot took too optimistic a view on human nature when he designed the game, assuming that griefers would be so few and hated they'd be kept in line by the majority easily. He didn't count on the amount of internet geeks with inadequacy issues as a result of being bullied in IRL who would take the freedom UO offered to act as obnoxiously as the limits would allow them.

In some ways I'm still unsure of whether Trammel should have arisen but on the other hand the people who most enjoyed PvP perhaps should have made an effort to keep the worst of their lot in reign if they'd wanted it to keep going. Trammel was after all only the last resort when people proved too sociopathic to allow limitless PvP.

#11
Gnomy

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I've never had problems with smacktalk.. I was in the 2 most hated guilds on Europa for a looong time. You got used to it.. and just killed those that annoyed you. Simple.

But when UOR came, Many old pvpers quit. The old pvp respect was suddenly gone.. People did more griefing than actually pvping and this stuck in the game till now. Soo removing Trammel wouldn't do any good, more cause harm to the game.

Its another level of maturity and respect betwen the pvpers these days.

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#12
Corvak

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Most of them had the attitude that it was their god given right to grief 'filthy n00bs'.


This. It's that sort of attitude that turned me off of PVP in UO. I think everyone should be able to promote their play style, but they shouldn't be allowed to hinder someone elses while doing so.

And there is a difference between PVP and griefing. Attacking a miner, stealing his ore and leaving? That's PVP. Hiding near a res and killing everyone as they ressurect, well that's obvious griefing. PVP needs a goal that isn't "to piss someone off". Such as stealing mined ore.

All the open PVP was doing, was giving PvPers some fun at the expense of driving new players from the game. Eve Online has the same problem, but it doesn't aim for a mainstream audience.

#13
Yelena

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don't get me wrong.... i love pvp... and yes i hate and still hate the tram fel split but there was a reason for that, the first guild i created was a merc guild and yes we rp'ed. we would take groups of resource gathers to get resources and they paid us a protection fee... the split effectivily ended the guild. but me and my guildies got our pvp fix, the resource gathers got there resources and the gold from the contract went into the guild pot which went towards housing and other things for the guild.

we also had goal related tasks making up pvp missions as we went along... but it was fun, the resource gathers got there resources... ok there would be deaths but a res wasn't even a screen away, if the pk got any resources then it wouldn't be meny seconds before we got them back, the miner rezed and gathering again... win win... thats what i miss the most... it was fairly profitable also :D

[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Death comes in so meny forms and I know quite a few of them....http://img204.imageshack.us/i/yelenasig.jpg/


#14
Dionysus

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so Yelena, what do u do now?
and do you think they should do something about this all?
www. eyerant.webs.com

www. eviltfb.webs.com

#15
Gnomy

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pking before trammel was fun and exciting and you needed a team to pull off successful raids in dungons.

These days, red mean nothing.

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#16
Yelena

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i have basicly moved to europa and roleplay there... also spawn, fel pvp, peerless, dungeon crawl... craft.... and other things

[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Death comes in so meny forms and I know quite a few of them....http://img204.imageshack.us/i/yelenasig.jpg/


#17
Christine

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I remember my first month playing UO.. I created my character on Great Lakes and remember walking from the moongate in Moonglow to town where I was attacked by a red character and he killed me and took everything in my backpack.. was I mad? Of course, but you know what he didn't harrass me. He didn't do any sort of griefing..I learned very quickly from that day on that I would need to defend myself from similiar attacks but I also learned how fun it could be to actually defend yourself and win the battle. Then a few years ago, things changed. The pvper atmosphere turned into something that was dishonorable. People were getting rez killed, harrassed, etc. I can recall many times watching a player get harrassed at a bank after being killed.The pvper would follow their victim around town and continue griefing the other player, calling that person names(preferrabley noob), and taunting them as much as they could. Some people couldn't handle the new age of pvpers and when they came out with Trammel it was a relief that they could go somewhere to try to avoid all the griefers. In my opinion.. I think Fel has become completely barren. I travel there often and very rarely cross anyone. I think Trammel killed pvp. (unless your in factions) Was it a good move? Yes and No. They should have come out with some other way to stop griefing besides creating a whole new land. I don't mind Tram or Fel. It'd just be nice to have one world instead of a moongate to 25 other places :P

#18
Venomusmc

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Welli don't think this is a UO problem as my much as an Internet problem. Look at most forums where it's constant flame wars. There are no consequences to being a jerk, bully, whatever online. I am sometimes on other forums and notice there that they thrive off an elitist attitude and being negative. Now this isn't a UO forum but people can hide behind the computer. It's ironic that many people that talk so much trash about pvp and how you shouldn't hide in trammal etc are themselves only able to behave the way they want because they are behind a computer. Imagine if you had to go to a place with these same griefers, I highly doubt they'd be so uber cool then. The problem was never fel or trammal but the Internet being an enabler for acting like a fool.

#19
elffyb

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The problem was never fel or trammal but the Internet being an enabler for acting like a fool.


I think this is an excellent excuse to bring class action against Al Gore.

Didn't he invent the Internet?

#20
Corvak

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If you give an anonymous person the ability to ruin someone else's gameplay with no fear of consequence, they will inevitably follow through.

The difference between pre-ren and fel, is that people in fel want to PVP, and want to fight back. When someone enters a game, only to be attacked, they inevitably stop having fun. And then they question whether or not it's worth it to continue paying the subscription fee, especially with games like LOTRO offering free play.