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Save RP on Europa!

- - - - - europa rp save

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55 replies to this topic

#1
Gerek Darkheart

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Okay. Let's face it. We're not enough RP players anymore to keep RP alive in the whole area of Sosaria. Some guilds do fine by its own, others don't. This is mainly a starters thread to a discussion what people think would be the best solutions. I'm sure it's been up before to move the RP to different smaller areas, but really haven't we come to the point yet where this should be excutable? Are people still too proud to give up their RP places to gather at one?

On this board I want people suggestions on what to do. I'll be pissed off if anyone just writes "move to this and that". Instead come with creative ideas how to solve it and explain why we should chose the area you say. If we don't do anything soon enough, I'm sure it will come to an end on the Europa shard.

I've contacted a few GMs on Catskills and see what they thought about moving RP shardwise. You may also give an opinion on this. And what shard you'd think be the best one to move now. And try to answer so unselfish as possible. Answer the way that would be best for UOs littered RP community.

We should really cherish the RP we have in UO as you won't find it anywhere else. And believe me I've been looking. After all it's what makes me return to UO each and every time.

*EDIT* Oh and by the way, if I spot even the smallest thing of drama, between anyone. This thread is gone. BE MATURE people, or at least try to.

*Signed
Worried RP'er
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#2
Van Cocidius

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Heh, shard-wise I think Europa is probably the more suited to me personally. I've tried Catskills and it's all fantasy sort of based whereas Europa has a more military theme to it which is true to the origins of Ultima (with the exceptions of Drow and Elves).

Again I can't see people leaving Trinsic, Yew, Cove and Vesper to be closer to each other even if it will be good for the community, I don't think it's a matter of pride though. Something should be done though, perhaps build up a scenario where all the guilds have been forced to take up camp in this one area and forced to work together for a set number of weeks? As Gerek knows, I'm trying to bring VTC back to life and get it involved with this civil war which we started for the very purpose to bring people back to Vesper but it's failing miserably. At most it's only ever myself and Vaughn who are able to make it to the battles because people have characters needed elsewhere for whatever reason.

With the current ongoing situation between Casca and Sherry, perhaps all the guilds could be positioned in Britain for a while because without a doubt there's going to be conflict on either side. Noticed Yew have already started to act hostile with Trinsic. Will be interesting to see what else turns up on this thread.

Something needs to be done for sure, it's kinda' sad that people only come online now when somethings been planned by someone whereas back in the day people could be found online all day and all night working on their own projects and bringing others into it.

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#3
Gerek Darkheart

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*nods* Although I don't think a temporary stay in a certain area would do it. I mean it's been done before and ends up with people only going there when there's events planned. I permanent stay is what would suffice. But what exactly is it that keeps people from this? When they know it's the thing to do to improve the RP on the shard.

And yes Catskills have a lot of high fantasy players. But wouldn't it be something to RP with them? In RP everyone should be allowed is my opinion. I remember a few guilds back in the days that RP'd centaurs and felines. Why have that become such a ban?

Eitehrway that was out of topic. If someone wants to answer then please do so. But try to stay to the main thing =)
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#4
Kimi

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Again I can't see people leaving Trinsic, Yew, Cove and Vesper to be closer to each other even if it will be good for the community, I don't think it's a matter of pride though. Something should be done though, perhaps build up a scenario where all the guilds have been forced to take up camp in this one area and forced to work together for a set number of weeks?

I thought the moot worked quite well, in that respect. Although I know some people were itching to get "home" ooc.
Personally, some of my characters could move to other areas, while others couldn't/wouldn't.
I'm not sure that moving wouldn't be treating a symptom, rather than the underlying cause...

Something needs to be done for sure, it's kinda' sad that people only come online now when somethings been planned by someone whereas back in the day people could be found online all day and all night working on their own projects and bringing others into it.

It's self defeating. If people don't log in, because nothing's happening, then there's less chance of something happening. Which makes it less worthwhile for others to log in, if they are planning to at all, because of there being nothing happening.
As a result, there's less encouragement for people to run things, if people aren't about to participate. So, they don't try, so there's fewer things to encourage people to log in.
Slippery slopes ftl.

#5
Kimi

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I've contacted a few GMs on Catskills and see what they thought about moving RP shardwise. You may also give an opinion on this. And what shard you'd think be the best one to move now. And try to answer so unselfish as possible. Answer the way that would be best for UOs littered RP community.

The RoE makes the Europa RP community pretty inclusive. If they all made characters over here, skill training aside, they could all be kitted out relatively easily, and then they're good to go.
If they try out over here, and want to stay, then good job. If not, it's not as if they had to spent millions and millions on stuff, to give it a try.

I don't see how it could hurt, terribly.

#6
Van Cocidius

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I permanent stay is what would suffice. But what exactly is it that keeps people from this? When they know it's the thing to do to improve the RP on the shard.


Long term though.. it's not about being loyal to the guild you're in, it's more about the characters we've created. I wouldn't consider playing anybody else but Van.. because I feel I play Van so well. So we'd have to think of a reason for these characters to come together to a certain area with other people.. so it would have to spawn from a scenario. Not a lot of people will be so willing to go and create new characters for a new Empire sort of thing.

A brand new guild/city all together would be a strong move, having everybody start fresh together in the one chosen city. But again, like Kimi said, people will start itching to get home to their turf that they're comfortable in. I agree in time it will need to be done if we are to continue enjoying the experience and get our £9.99 worth per month, with new games coming along in the coming years, UO's numbers will shrink and shrink.

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#7
Ditriteous/Locke

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Nobody wants to give up their characters backstorys, not to mention there player run empty citys. I have no doubht in my mind that VTC will never want to lose Swaggers, Gwen wont wanna run her elf haven in Yew. Grd is never leaving Stonekeep period.

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The views and opinions of this user are in no way affiliated with his respective guilds, in conclusion F**K OFF!


#8
Dorian Abronsius

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The reason why people can't move together in one place is that most simply wouldn't want to be caught dead near the rest. They can endure each other for a given amount of time when an event is running but experience shows that said time is rather short.

By now RP can be compared to a street with lots of bars and clubs. Some like to get drunk in a bar, others like icecream and coffee in the street café while others want the five course and six wines luxury dinner with candles and music. Stuff one in with the others and they'll get unhappy. In UO, some like casual and shallow RP, others like a whole lot of action and yet others want a more intense experience. So the worst mistake you can possibly make is to stuff each and everybody in one small place. And even if you did, people would still gravitate to thier former RP groups and partners.

And what do you win anyway? UO is a place where everything is just a moongate or a short walk or even a recall away. Most people can get from Vesper to Yew to Trinsic in the same time it takes to run from the bank to the provisioners. At the worst, nothing is more than five minutes away. If people wanted to play elsewhere and with others then they could do so, right now. But... most don't. And the easiest explanation and the most likely one is that they don't really want it all that much.

#9
Gerek Darkheart

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If people would move together at one place I believe it would increase the spontanious RP. People wouldn't have to -search- for other people to role-play with. Once you logged on your character something would be going on. May it be a smaller or bigger things.
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#10
Reed

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Solution!

EA get their finger out and allow cross shard transport, there arent enough people playin UO to support so many shard alone but if you could skip from one to another it would be amazing.
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#11
Sineal Walker

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The reason why people can't move together in one place is that most simply wouldn't want to be caught dead near the rest. They can endure each other for a given amount of time when an event is running but experience shows that said time is rather short.

By now RP can be compared to a street with lots of bars and clubs. Some like to get drunk in a bar, others like icecream and coffee in the street café while others want the five course and six wines luxury dinner with candles and music. Stuff one in with the others and they'll get unhappy. In UO, some like casual and shallow RP, others like a whole lot of action and yet others want a more intense experience. So the worst mistake you can possibly make is to stuff each and everybody in one small place. And even if you did, people would still gravitate to thier former RP groups and partners.

And what do you win anyway? UO is a place where everything is just a moongate or a short walk or even a recall away. Most people can get from Vesper to Yew to Trinsic in the same time it takes to run from the bank to the provisioners. At the worst, nothing is more than five minutes away. If people wanted to play elsewhere and with others then they could do so, right now. But... most don't. And the easiest explanation and the most likely one is that they don't really want it all that much.


I agree that people shouldn't be forced to all adopt a single RP style but that's not what is being proposed. The suggestion is that everyone move to a single area whilst maintaining their particular ethos. This allows more scope for interaction between different groups whilst they each maintain their own values. Think multiculturalism instead of cosmopolitonism.

I personally think that each groups being five minutes away does make a significant impact upon how willing people are to interact. Not everyone has a character that would realistically know how to recall, and many are rarely in the mood to traipse all the way to another city on the off chance that someone will be around. If they were just down the road however, people would probably would make the effort. I think people with experience of CoY know just how much difference it makes to have all the guilds concentrated in one area.

I still think that the only way to really centralise RP would be for us all to make new chars and base them in some place where no one currently RPs like Paupa. That's the only way to prevent arguments over who moves and who stays. But as Van says people are too attached to their characters to do that, and it would take an awful lot of organisation. I think if we did commit to it, it would be the best possible thing to happen to Europa RP. But because of practical problems and the lack of will for change in the community, it remains a utopian dream. As recruits dry up, we'll just see RP guilds wither away, or lower their recruitment standards to the point where there's no real value in their concepts anymore.

As for moving to Catskills...no thanks. Even if it wasn't all high fantasy shite.

#12
Declan O'Connor

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Firstly imo the RoE isolates 'some' RPers.

I'll not mention any names in this post but I'm sure you're all clever enough to work out what I'm on about.

Some guilds refuse to RP/RPPvP with other guilds because they don't like the fact that said guilds do not follow the RoE. Some guilds refuse to RP/RPPvP with other guilds because said guild doesn't like them in an IC sense.

We're in a state where said guilds need to swallow their 'pride'.
We've (meaning Grd) have had to do it alot over the years, mostly recently now. Recently the majority of guilds are refusing to interact with us, leaving us to play amongst ourselves. Although fighting each other is fun, it's not the same as a battle with an outcome.

People do not need to move where they're based to a new location, but they do need to move themselves more often. It's difficult to do as Grd because all the other guilds treat us as if we're Nazis. Some guilds have the IC right to treat us how they do, -v- and BoC etc. But other guilds for the reasons mentioned above refuse to interact with our guild, and when attempts are made by us to encourage interaction it gets frowned upon and shut down as quickly as possible.

I've rambled on abit, I'll give an example about what I'm on about.

A few months back when S&K were kicking off and DOT did not have the force to deal with them.. Iijian (Spelling?!) ran all the way to Stonekeep to request our help.

We were in the middle of an event, but we dropped everything and went to aid Trinsic. I really enjoyed this as the community feel was nice, and the fact that DOT ( a guild that rarely interacts with Grd ) called on us for help was nice.

I'm not saying we need a full blown war, with lots of alliances, we just need to be more mobile as a community. Elves.. need to gtfo of Trinsic and the elven quarter. Vesper needs to gtfo Vesper. Grd need to gtfo of Yew. BoC need to gtfo Cove, and Van needs to gtfo of his arse, etc.

When I say gtfo, I don't mean forever.. I mean for an evening or so.

'But we need a reason to leave..!!!'

Then make one up.
Come on you've all got an imagination somewhere.
Countless times we've gone to live in Britain for a week on a recruitment campaign, it's fun and different setting up camp somewhere else.

----------------------------------


More community events such as markets and tournaments.

'Urgh, pvp I hate pvp, I won't go!'
Why not? Go and watch, go and interact..
Go and start betting on people.. you don't have to pvp to take part in a pvp tournament!

'Urgh not markets, they're boring!'
Go to the market, talk to the event runner, ask about setting up a pvp booth.. Don't just not turn up because you don't want to stand around and buy ale and muffins.

#13
Rabid Bogling

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As in other such threads, I find myself agreeing with Sineal.

Should people be willing to delete at least one of their characters, assume temporary ooc anonymity, and play solely with a brand-spanking new character in an untouched area for a trial period of roughly a month we'd have a fresh start, a centralised community, and - hopefully - minimal perennial issues to deal with. Thing is you'd need the GMs to agree to put their guilds temporarily on the shelf, so that people wouldn't be forced to choose between guild events and the new project. If it proves a success, roleplay in Europa could undergo a renaissance. If it proves a failure, you've only sacrificed the skills and stats of a single character.

That said, I don't see a problem at present. Speaking as someone who isn't currently playing, things seem to be in pretty good order all things considered. Unless I'm mistaken there are better OOC relations between all guilds than there have been in a long time, there are plenty of events going on, and there are more than enough people about to keep things running.

#14
Arman Stark

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Some time ago I came up with the idea of a low-fantasy theme of starting a wholly new guild around Delucia, with skill caps and only using resources farmed from the area i.e if the guards need armour and weapons people need to mine and kill animals. The skill cap would initially be, say about 60. Players would earn 'points' through events and suchlike would could be used over time to increase their cap limit slightly, similar to Grd's currency ruleset. Perma-death would be encouraged. The guild would encompass the citizens of Delucia, orcs at the orc fort and maybe undead. Possibly other groups such as savages camping in the wilderness too.

The idea behind keeping the skillcap low would be to emphaisise that the characters are everyday people, not uber-heroes. Also, with perma-death, it would be a minor thing to delete a char with no skills over 60 and make a new one.

I've played perma-death RP servers on Neverwinter Nights 1 and 2 and it really adds to the excitement. Knowing that every patrol could end in slaughter, the conflict between helping to defend a town or run and hide... the OMG! factor when drow globes of darkness suddenly appear on your character during a patrol and all hell breaks loose. Sadly the NWN 1 and 2 engines are too geared for levelling and combat. UO wins when it comes to simple crafting and has no levels.

In the end, I decided not to proceed with this plan because I suspected interest in UO was too limited, that people would be too tied to their chars or would get bored playing lowbie characters. The week-long timer to delete chars would be a pain also.

#15
Escaflowne/Balgus

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I agree with Sineal especially with:
The only way it would work is if everyone started a fresh in a neutral area that hasn't got any RP guilds/players etc linked to it and that folks start new chars and guilds. That way its fair and everyone has to go through the same phase.

But i can hardly see it happening, or it finally happening when its pretty much too late because:
A.) People don't want to abandon their chars and their history.
B.) People don't want to disband their guilds with their history.
C.) People don't want to let go off their buildings, player towns etc that they have tryed so hard to get.
D.) Alot of people are too proud and Guilds think they can suvive by themselves which i highly doubt a guild can survive on its own, perhaps for a while but not forever.
E.) Folks just won't to give up what they have worked so hard to achieve.
F.) Most guilds will want everyone to come to them as they don't want to move.

As for conflict of different RP types and standards, we now live in a time where you can't be picky with who you RP if you want to stay together as a community for a longer suvival and larger memberbase. If we all moved into one area or a big city and the surrounding area like Britain then there is enough room for plenty of diversity and different guild types like Guards, Citizens, Bandits, Orcs, Undead and probaly many more.

I just don't see this happening until times get pretty dire, and everyone has their different opinions on when that time will be which stops it from happening even more. Some think it is now, some do not.

If it comes to it i wouldn't mind letting go, im sad and make up guilds in my spare time sometimes so i've got plenty of ideas i would love to try :P.

But anyway for now we still have a fair number of players in the RP community so i agree with Declan in that we should create more events where everyone can get together and get involved. I tryed to do that with 'The Great Nests' scenario which worked quite well and theres still one last part to be done. I also have a few ideas for community wide events after the next Vesper Elections in a few weeks. And Grd hold the rights to host the next Sosarian Olympics so we could get that done at some point this year.

I am hoping that the Stygian Abyss expansion along with once these EM events get full on rolling will bring more people back too hopefully.

I wish that EA would merge shards too as there clearly isn't enough players for all of them anymore. Im not sure how many European shards there are but i know Drachenfels is one, if that merged into Europa it would give us a boost in players, not sure how large though.

And if all the RP'ers and RP communities across UO all came together on one shard that would be completely awesome. But that is never going to happen lets face it :P.

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#16
Van Cocidius

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I think it'll take a very drastic event to pull us all together into a close-knit community, even though I do beleive very much that it'll be better in the long run for us all. The only obstacle is the characters we love, their history, and the communities we've created over the last 11 years or so. I think we can all get by for another year to be honest, but I think we should really start hosting mass events for everybody to take part in. A lot like Esca's nests, where everyone was invited.. but maybe think of something on a bigger scale, get the EM's involved. I remember the void in Moonglow, nearly every RP guild was there day and night, and I really did enjoy it. Conversing with people I wouldn't usually do so, I think it's great - I made tons of friends who I wouldn't of otherwise.

Maybe we should speak to the EM's, see if they can help create a similar scenario that will force us to live close to each other.

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#17
Henry Winter B^F

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Said it before and i'll say it again, i agree with Sineal on this. I'd be willing to create a new, unknown character and move him to a single city guild. Might be an idea to have a shard wide "RP power hour" too. Not knowing who people are would be fun.

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Crush your enemies, see them driven before you and hear the lamentation of their women!


#18
Declan O'Connor

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No one would stay without identity I don't think, people would find out OOCly who their friends were and the same old cliquey sections of the RP community would merge togeather and create the same enviroment we have now.

#19
Sineal Walker

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Eventually, yes. It is almost inevitable people would over time work a lot of it out on their own, and no doubt those more committed to the cliques would make it their mission to ruin the anonymity. But hopefully by the time that had happened the partisanship would have at least died down a bit, after a bit of non-prejudicial interaction between individuals who previously hated each other.

The thing is, even if guilds pretty much reformed as they are now almost immediately and stuck to their former ethos, at least we'd all be close together and in a totally different context. I imagined the reformed community would eventually split up into opposing groups each with a different ethos anyway. But still, a centralised location and the interaction opportunities this provides would ensure a stronger community atmosphere and much greater scope for interesting and fun RP.

#20
Raiden

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This is a topic that was brought up probably 10-12 months or so ago and to be fair although UO subscriptions will have declined during that period and thus decreased the RPer playerbase on Europa I think our RP community is probably as stable and robust as it has been for some time.

As other people have said before, I really can't see people uprooting exisiting characters/guilds/communities or creating brand new personas and nor do I think there is a need to.

Would someone who's spent years roleplaying a Besieger or brigand enter this new environment and roleplay a tree hugging elf, evil drow, centaur, squidman or landed gentry? Or would they still roleplay a surly warrior? Only with a different name and surroundings?

If everyone uprooted and started afresh would the IC factions and cliques that develop in this new centralised roleplay community be any less Yew, Cove or Vesper? I doubt it. So why uproot? Why not work with and make the best of what we have already got?

It's taken years and years to develop the various infrastructures, attitudes, relationships and history etc. so why do away with it when we should be making use of it?

There is still so much diversity in the community and things going on within respective guilds and between guilds. The problem is a dwindling pool of players, not that the community doesn't have anything to offer and I really don't see how wiping everything out and starting from scratch in Deulcia or Papua is going to increase the RP playerbase of UO. All it will do is serve to weaken the community that we have at the moment and probably spell then end of Europa's RP community full stop.

And I'm afraid I really don't buy into this "closer proximity" idea. You're only a public moongate, recall scroll, magicians portal or a few minutes jog from the next community. If you "really" want to interact with other members of a community does it "really" matter whether you are housed on the same street or strungout as we are now. If you are looking to interact with someone how long does it really take to visit each active player run town in turn? 5 minutes? less?

We have everything already in place. Just use it?





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