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New features of the expansion.

- - - - - expansion features

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#41
Som

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Som Roxxors!!!

I don't know about that but if I was a Greater mongbat warrior on a polar bear wielding a Bukuto then I would!!!! because as a Greater Mongbat warior I would have 6hp instead of 3hp :)

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#42
Maddux

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If you selct Ilesh as your starting point you just might be a peerless Greater mongbat warrior with a bukuto riding a polar bear. :)

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#43
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Ooooooo and I would Be Gold too! and have 9hp:grin:

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#44
Maddux

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Do Mongbats get a pack bonus?

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#45
Damin

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No thats horde minion, another race I think would be cool to play just cuz they's all googly-eyed n' stuff :)

#46
Evil Ninja Troll

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Ooooooo and I would Be Gold too! and have 9hp:grin:




9 hit points!!! That would be WAAAYY to overpowered and would cause major balance issues and everyone in "that other forum" would be up at arms screaming for the high-powered mongbat nerf. I mean a gold mongbat with bushido AND riding a polar bear...well that is just asking too much.
Evil will always conquer over good, because good is dumb.

#47
Maddux

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It would only be too much if mongbats were allowed to fly while riding a polar bat and wielding a bukuto. :)

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#48
Eowyna Rohanna

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I STILL say it all depends on the wardrobe allowed female mongbats. I mean, a mongbat in a leather bustier and one of those teeny skirts, perhaps a pair of high-heeled boots? Or even Minax armor? Think about it.

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#49
Evil Ninja Troll

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I STILL say it all depends on the wardrobe allowed female mongbats. I mean, a mongbat in a leather bustier and one of those teeny skirts, perhaps a pair of high-heeled boots? Or even Minax armor? Think about it.

I think I went to school with her.
Evil will always conquer over good, because good is dumb.

#50
Snowy

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I am hoping for Meer.. That seems like a logical choice to me.

If they are out to have a playable race that is 'evil' by nature, they might go with an elf variation and put in Drow, though.

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#51
Maddux

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*crosses fingers and hopes for mongbat*

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#52
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So I just can't see how you can come up with the first three ultimas don't mater. They are all over UO and have been from the beginning! They still play a major role in the UO story line.


The answer is right here, in Yazman's post:

He also said that he didn't actually start building the true Ultima universe until Ultima IV:

"The true development of Britannia was actually a process of taking stuff out, not putting stuff in - making sure that the world hung together as a cohesive whole."


The point is, it's not that the first three Ultimas don't matter, and furthermore, neither of us are saying that the first three Ultimas never happened (as far as this little virtual world is concerned). What it means, is that when the mastermind of Ultima decided to develop Britannia, this world, he took stuff out that didn't fit in: elves, fuzzies, and so forth.

I'll tell you what I said before in this thread:

The truth is, they're not in the later Ultimas. And that's precisely why I don't consider them a real part of Ultima Lore, because they don't have a consistent presence through the series. If there was an elven and dwarven race running around U7, or U9, sure, bring em to UO.


You can play the later Ultimas and see references to Mondain, Minax, Exodus and things that occured in Ultima I, II, and III, but that's because it is part of the story of Ultima... the lore. In other words, these aspects of Ultima do have a consistent presence in the series, and it is these things that define Ultima. What you won't see, however, are these races. You also don't see Samurai crap because it's not what made Britannia "Britannia".

Of course, it has been stated time and time again that Ultima Online does not follow the story line of the Ultima series, which makes it far more feasible to introduce this stuff that technically doesn't fit into Ultima. However, in my humblest of opinions, I think they should stay away and keep Ultima from being yet another generic RPG, and strive to preserve the originality of Britannia that I've always been drawn towards.
Still we loom in the mists as the ages roll away,
And we say of our folk, "they are here!"
That they built us and they died and you'll not be knowing why,
Save we stand on the bare plains of Wiltshire.

#53
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The point is, it's not that the first three Ultimas don't matter, and furthermore, neither of us are saying that the first three Ultimas never happened (as far as this little virtual world is concerned). What it means, is that when the mastermind of Ultima decided to develop Britannia, this world, he took stuff out that didn't fit in: elves, fuzzies, and so forth.


OK you need to set the way back machine and remember the technology that Ultimas were created on.

As stated by Richard Gariott on many occasions the decision to leave out the other races and or genders was not based on content of the current story line it was based on the technical issues mainly storage. There were no Cd's or DVDs they usually shipped on a 5.25 disk with a capacity of 720kb to 1200kb per disk there just wasn't enough room to store the art work and object handling code for multiple character models. then there was the issue with processing power to handle all this extra data. This problem even made its way to Ultima 9 where they were forced to leave out the option for a female avatar.

Just ask Cathat what it takes to add a single shirt to the 2d client of UO today and you will see what they faced.

You can play the later Ultimas and see references to Mondain, Minax, Exodus and things that occured in Ultima I, II, and III, but that's because it is part of the story of Ultima... the lore. In other words, these aspects of Ultima do have a consistent presence in the series, and it is these things that define Ultima. What you won't see, however, are these races. You also don't see Samurai crap because it's not what made Britannia "Britannia".


you just confused me here it sounds like your arguing my side:huh:

If you can play the latter ultimas and find reference to the first 3 and are "part of the story of Ultima... the lore." then aren't they still part of Ultima and continue to be a part of it and "do have a consistent presence in the series, and it is these things that define Ultima." then don't they help to make up Britannia?? ahh...... ya this one just confused me:huh::huh::huh:

Of course, it has been stated time and time again that Ultima Online does not follow the story line of the Ultima series, which makes it far more feasible to introduce this stuff that technically doesn't fit into Ultima. However, in my humblest of opinions, I think they should stay away and keep Ultima from being yet another generic RPG, and strive to preserve the originality of Britannia that I've always been drawn towards.


If as you stated above "You can play the later Ultimas and see references to Mondain, Minax, Exodus and things that occured in Ultima I, II, and III, but that's because it is part of the story of Ultima... the lore." Then don't they "technically fit" into the story? Dwarfs and Fuzzies were part of them!

and by doing so are we not striving to preserve the originality of Ultima which existed long long before the other games were even thought up?

I remember when the first Ultima came out. I remember playing it on my Apple II.
I remember playing all of the Ultimas when they came out. I have always been drawn to them even the first 3.

They all contributed not only to the game but to the game industry as a whole. They accomplished remarkable things with the technology of the time.

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#54
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*crosses fingers and hopes for mongbat*



LONG LIVE THE MONGBAT POLAR BEAR RIDING BUKUTO WEILDING WARRIORS!!!


or Dwarfs I would like to have Dwarfs too :)

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#55
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I apologize for not making myself more clear.

Let me try again in my explanation. First let me put up this quote again:

"The true development of Britannia was actually a process of taking stuff out, not putting stuff in - making sure that the world hung together as a cohesive whole."


What this means, is that when Garriot decided to actually develop what we now know as Britannia, an original world, there were certain things that had to be taken out; not all things, mind you, but some. You've said you played all the Ultimas, yes? Did any of them past Ultima IV contain any references to fuzzies, or elves or dwarves? Second question: Did they have any references to Mondain, Minax, or Exodus? The point is, *some* of the content from I, II, III made it through to the world-development process, but some of it did not. I have never heard of technical requirements affecting so drastically such important dynamics of the game.

Edit:
Hmm, well just for the heck of it let me restate my point again. The fact that you can find references to Mondain, Minax, Exodus, and some other elements that can be found in Ultima I, II, III in later Ultimas shows that they are consistent throughout the series and thus are a part of the actual lore. The fact that you cannot find references to dwarves, elves, fuzzies, and so forth in later Ultimas shows that they are not consistent throughout the series, and therefore do not hold a place in the actual Ultima Lore. In other words, some of it, but not all of it. This is reflected in the quotes stated by Yazman about how Garriot was "taking stuff out", about how "Other elements in early Ultimas included things like laser swords, spaceships, evil sentient computers, landspeeders and sci-fi elements that made the games something of a hodgepodge creatively."

This problem even made its way to Ultima 9 where they were forced to leave out the option for a female avatar.


Forgive me, but I have a hard time understanding how that could be possible. Ultima 9 came on two CDs, and had female character models. Somehow, it seems unlikely that a storage issue prevented them from allowing the character's model to be a female version instead of a male version. If you would please show me where you found that information, I would greatly appreciate it.

I can understand how one would come to say that if it's in Ultima I, II, III, it's part of the Ultima Lore, period. On one hand, it makes sense, but on the other hand, it doesn't make sense in that a few of these elements are not consistent throughout the series.

Now, before I hit the hay, I just want to make one more comment about the elven race in particular (please forgive me, but yes, it's part rant). Let me make something perfectly clear: the elven race being added had nothing, I repeat, *nothing* to do with lore. The devs even stated it themselves: it was a popular choice on a survey. What this says to me, is that the developers responsible for elves decided to sacrifice some of the originality of this game in favor of "listening" to players knowing that the players do not always know what's best for the game. Except for me. I know everything.

Yet another edit! : And another thing, because I have a feeling this will pop up at some point. Anything can be explained my friends. Just because they justify Samurai's by referring to the Land of the Feudal Lords, or explaining that elves suddenly appeared from a giant tree that we've never noticed before doesn't necessarily mean they belong. And if all else fails, just use this explanation: A wizard did it.
Still we loom in the mists as the ages roll away,
And we say of our folk, "they are here!"
That they built us and they died and you'll not be knowing why,
Save we stand on the bare plains of Wiltshire.

#56
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I honestly cannot wait for this. This client makes Ultima Online seem more "real" in my opinion. It just looks great from what I have seen.

#57
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My concern is what happens when you get a mob of people or monsters on the screen
Does the system requirements then shoot through the roof?
For instance, imagine a champ spawn with all the magical effects going off at the same time.

#58
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The point is, *some* of the content from I, II, III made it through to the world-development process, but some of it did not. I have never heard of technical requirements affecting so drastically such important dynamics of the game.


OK then you have never programmed. To this vary day they do even in UO. I beta tested UO and the decision to leave out multiple player races was technical not story driven I remember the discussions and the reasons for leaving them out it had nothing to do with Ultima or any other fiction it was 100% technical. You are still bound by the limitations of the hardware.

I will also give you this quote about U9: found here
“4.6.1.1 Will there be an option for a female Avatar?
Yes. This was not included in Ultima VIII due to the number of animation frames required. 1,200 frames were used for The Avatar alone!”
And as stated the female avatar did not make it into U9 because of technical reasons as well. Even though they had full intentions of doing so.

And here is actual quote from one of the developers working on a latter Ultima found in that game.

“If we don’t get some kind of compression we will be shipping on 9 CD’s”

You always have to make sacrifices to content in order to have a product that can make it to the consumers. You mentioned U4 so let me remind you that a lot more content was added to it then was taken away from U3 in order to be able to ship this new content some things had to be left out. What would you rather have multiple player races or the virtues? If you have a box that will only hold so much information what do you put in and what do you leave out? The box dictates a lot of what you can do.


they are not consistent throughout the series, and therefore do not hold a place in the actual Ultima Lore. In other words, some of it, but not all of it.


You can’t pick and chose your history it existed it is and always will be part of the lore.
Yes the story changed every thing changes but that dose not invalidate the history.

This is reflected in the quotes stated by Yazman about how Garriot was "taking stuff out", about how "Other elements in early Ultimas included things like laser swords, spaceships, evil sentient computers, landspeeders and sci-fi elements that made the games something of a hodgepodge creatively."

Again you need to pull your head out of the present and remember the past.
Ultima 1 was the first it had 2 elements in it sci-fi and fantasy. In order to progress each element the two were split. The sci-fi was developed into Wing Commander and the rest remained under the Ultima title. And again there was also the technical issue of leaving them together the programs would have been huge!!
I would also like to remind people that the Wing Commander story line never completely left the Ultima story but don’t take my word for it just read about it here

Forgive me, but I have a hard time understanding how that could be possible. Ultima 9 came on two CDs, and had female character models. Somehow, it seems unlikely that a storage issue prevented them from allowing the character's model to be a female version instead of a male version

ok again you obviously are not a programmer. Do you remember the cut scenes? Do you have any idea of what goes into making a game there is a lot more then just a character model or a single peace of art! What you see is not all of what is going on.

I can understand how one would come to say that if it's in Ultima I, II, III, it's part of the Ultima Lore, period. On one hand, it makes sense, but on the other hand, it doesn't make sense in that a few of these elements are not consistent throughout the series.

Consistency is a mater of looking at the whole not just the part you like!

What this says to me, is that the developers responsible for elves decided to sacrifice some of the originality of this game in favor of "listening" to players knowing that the players do not always know what's best for the game.

O MY GOD!! Did I read that correctly? Wow I have now idea how to respond to this, it has no basis in realty. All I can say is that if it sells more product then it is good for the game because the game will continue to be funded and continue to exist! That is good!!

Yet another edit! : And another thing, because I have a feeling this will pop up at some point. Anything can be explained my friends. Just because they justify Samurai's by referring to the Land of the Feudal Lords, or explaining that elves suddenly appeared from a giant tree that we've never noticed before doesn't necessarily mean they belong. And if all else fails, just use this explanation: A wizard did it.

Well all I have to say about this is that you originally stated that Dwarfs never existed in Ultima and as my original post on this subject pointed out that they in fact did exist in Ultima. Nothing you can come up with to try to explain away their existence will change that fact that I can load up an early Ultima and select a dwarf or fuzzy as a race to play.

Now if you will excuse me I think I will go Log into UO with my Elf archer grab my favorite Yumi bow and go hunt some Oni so I can stock up on Bukuto’s to use with my polor bear riding mongbat warrior when they are added to the game!

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#59
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My concern is what happens when you get a mob of people or monsters on the screen
Does the system requirements then shoot through the roof?
For instance, imagine a champ spawn with all the magical effects going off at the same time.


I'm not to worried about it. I love the way it looks at this point and it seams that they are keeping the technical aspect of game play in mind by "gearing it for lower end systems."

but we will always feel the presence of the Lag monster. I have died more to the Lag monster then anything else in game!:(

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#60
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My concern is what happens when you get a mob of people or monsters on the screen
Does the system requirements then shoot through the roof?
For instance, imagine a champ spawn with all the magical effects going off at the same time.


Thats actually a really good question... Id hope it doesnt mess up the champ spawns etc..





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