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** Long post ** Important: PoF not for SA imbuing skill items??

- - - - - imbuing important items long pof post sa skill

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#1
Tabbitha

Tabbitha

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The recent HoC chat started a very in depth discussion a few weeks back on imbuing in SA with PoF,prior to the Chicago Town Hall meeting.


Der Rock started the thread with this opening post.

from the HoC:
zigzag - *athos_uo* Will be Powder of Fortifying be used on imbued items in SA?
Jeremy_EAMythic - Leurocian says no, and you can hear more about the details


i think, a big problem these day´s are the forgetfulness of the people.

remember last townhall, what jeremy sayd about randomness off mining and lumber resourcess and why they make it like this.
so, if collecting higher ingots and wood(valo/frost) is more catchier, then the new SA items will be not easy to get.

fact is, that NO of todays new top mmo´s let items brake.
items can be useless/wornout after a while, BUT they are Repaireable!

example: let say a average player with 1-3h playtime ,such a player can´t be bothered
to examine and control his armor and weapons and replace items every day/week/month.
player "love" to try to maxout his charakter with items.

i posted it many times here, dont let items brake, let them outworn over time, but then let them be Repairable,the higher the mods the more resourcess u need to repair.
that would be
a) a good gold sink
b)keep the player motivated
c)keep the resourcess provider busy


dev´s : dont start to trash SA even before it is online.
i mean it well,braking the belongins of player is WRONG


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In support of crafters Silverbird posted

Items braking and beeing able to be replace without too much trouble is the basis for crafters. A few years ago ... when many ppl ran around in exceptional armours t wasnt a problem.


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whilst Traveller picked up on the economy side .

Originally Posted by Der Rock
fact is, that NO of todays new top mmo´s let items brake.
items can be useless/wornout after a while, BUT they are Repaireable!


Not on MMOs who have a serious economy... Of course you can argue that UO shouldn't have a serious economy, many MMO don't, after all. But it seems clear to me that AoS and following expansions have proven that UO won't gain anything by imitating other newer, more flashier games.

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Gheed returned to the crafting aspect

FFXI has a serious economy. Items do not wear and can not be lost. They have just as complex of a system of armor and weapons as UO. As well as a very robust food system that provides very helpful bonus' to different templates. Crafting the right items at the right time can yield very profitable results. The game is at six years now and the economy is still very robust. One mil is still a lot of money yet not hard to obtain if you put a little effort to it.

I read some posts here that claim this will be good for crafting. But I'm curious... Who here would be delighted too have to replace items regularly for all their templates. My PoF vendor votes heavily that folks don't want to.


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kelmo had this to say

I would be delighted to see items break. Your PoF vendor could sell enhanced items.
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Tuefel Hund
agreed and nostalgically wrote

As would I. Repairing of armor and such used to be an important part of the game and also used to create player interaction. I remember standing in line at the Smithy in Brit and waiting for the GM smith to repair my items. Little things like that are what made this game special.

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Landicine put his own observation forward

While game economies are important, I think good game play is more important. I don't think AoS killed UO's economy; I think it expanded it. People can still sell practically anything, though certain mundane items aren't in that much demand. It is never going to go back to the days where crafters could sell just exceptional items and make a living.

I'm going to make an interesting observation. People use powder on everything, including items that aren't worth as much as the powder. I had to repair a friend's pixi swatter during the Ethereal Moonglow incident which had been repaired so many times, it needed powder. A pixi swatter, under normal non-Spring Cleaning conditions, is cheaper to buy than the powder to increase its durability. However, I can save up powder and use it to help most of the items I own because it simplifies things when I just want to repair the item and get back in the fight. During Magincia, I didn't have time to make or buy a new demon slayer, my friends needed me armed and ready now.

This is major. So major I would ask that the devs rethink this change away from powder. Unless imbuing adds something similar. I think waiting for the town hall is going to be important before there is any final verdict.


~~~~

whilst Satanatra had this to say.

I have to agree with the original poster.

People go crazy building their suits - and tbh it is a difficult task. Having to rebuild you suit every week would drive people nuts. Back when items did break - replacing them was easy because they used gm leather/plate etc... With todays items it just wouldnt work.

And another thing - people always go on about how good the old days were. Well, i played in the old days (from the original open beta) and, yes, they were unbelieveable good. But you CANT GO BACK. If they reverted UO, right now, to the state/rule set of the game in 1997 people would not love it. Things/people have changed.

The idea i support most would be a combination of the two main proposals put forward here:

Let items wear down to the point that they are useless.

Let Crafters repair them.

Make this repair process difficult and expensive to do, requiring things you get from completing quests or defeating mobs...

But let people have their items.


~~~~

Many more posts followed discussing the above and kelmo decided to remind everyone what the full quote from HoC was

Here is the entire quote from the house of commons:

zigzag - *athos_uo* Will be Powder of Fortifying be used on imbued items in SA?
Jeremy_EAMythic - Leurocian says no, and you can hear more about the details of Imbuing at the Chicago Town Hall
Jeremy_EAMythic - Leurocian can answer all of your questions there in person
Perhaps, if we are lucky, Leurocian will give us some of his thoughts on this soon. If not we wait until Chicago.

Leurocian is a very intense listener and deeply passionate about this game. I felt it was much more than just a paycheck. Give him a chance to let us know where he is taking us.

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Traveller had nothing but praise for the dev's plans.



Originally Posted by Gheed
They both have serious economies.

That is enough. Sorry, but no. If you prefer this playstyle, fine, your money is as good as mine. But saying that UO has a serious economy is laughable, and only shows you have never seen one in action.

Again, if you prefer this playstyle it is your right to say so to the devs, but please, don't say the game has a serious economy only because one item on 100 can be sold well. There is much more in ingame economy than that.

Originally Posted by Gheed View Post
In UO itself look at some of the more desired high end gear. Crimson Cinture is a good example. Those have been around for a long long time and still the price tag is high. It can not be destroyed. It can be blessed. It can last forever.


Actually you have unwillingly given a point to those who favor the breaking of imbued items. The crimson cincture is so expensive only because it is awfully rare. Put it a fast drop like the miniarties and you'll see their prices dropping to 100K.

Obviously, no matter how difficult will be to imbue items, crafter powergamers will flood the market in no time (I already imagine our friend connor happily imbuing every mongbat loot he sees... :-) ). Since imbued items will be far from rare, the only way to keep their price high is to remove them from the system. If you don't remove them from the system they will soon be worth 100K each, and people once again will be screaming for "new content".

Or, you make imbuing INCREDIBLY hard so that even powergamers cannot satisfy the market. In which case is there a point? It would be another bod system, from which only crafter powergamers can benefit.

I think the devs finally made a good call with it, reinstating items that can be lost and that can be easily replaced. All people crying about POF basically forget that imbued items will be replaceable. Good call on this one, devs.



~~~~

whilst Jeremy pointed out

Comparisons to level-based games are misleading, because in a level-based game, your items generally become obsolete as your level goes up, so you need to replace them anyway. UO is very different in that you can create a brand-new character and equip the most powerful artifacts in the game as soon as you log in for the first time. If those items remain insured and never break, you'd never have to replace them at all.
__________________
E. Jeremy Dalberg,
Mythic Entertainment
www.uoherald.com


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Der Rock clearly upset by Jeremy's post responded


??? i am irritate again about u jeremy

1. show me that ! come to drachenfels with a NEW character ill give u a complete arti armor/weapon set, THEN go to doom and show me what u do !!!

2.it is NOT the players fault that u can do from 0 to 100 Skill in ONE day !!!
so," leveling" in UO is different to other mmo´s, but it is still "leveling"
that means UO should have his own prevention to wear high end stuff from the beginning

3.show me that in modern mmo´s, average player LIKE to REPLACE the armor/waepons
because they break after a while,again and again
(i mean REPLACE, not trade for better stuff)

4.i thought u (mythic) like to get NEW UO player in the future, but sometimes u(mythic) act like the oposite

#######################

whilst Gheed responded with



Originally Posted by Jeremy_EAMythic View Post
Comparisons to level-based games are misleading, because in a level-based game, your items generally become obsolete as your level goes up, so you need to replace them anyway. UO is very different in that you can create a brand-new character and equip the most powerful artifacts in the game as soon as you log in for the first time. If those items remain insured and never break, you'd never have to replace them at all.

Actually I cringed when I wrote a comparison post. I don't like to do that. But yes items do become obsolete as you level up in that game. Still though eventually you max level and get your end game gear... that never breaks or needs repairing. Crafted versions of this end game gear are still very much in demand. After six years there are tons of people at end game. So the leveling proccess does require that gear is changed but at the end demand is exactly the same as it would be in UO.

And you can equip the most powerful items as soon as you are born... but how would you do that if the game was new to you? If you were new, how would you obtain these items at character creation?

p.s. So does this me imbued items can not be repaired either? Because durabilty gets to a point that it isnt lost on repair when it gets so low. So that imbued item will last forever in theory but it will need repairing more often.

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Gheed, you could argue that in certain games the PvE end game just switches from player levels to gear levels - it's still a very linear progression, it's just organized differently. The way they solve the "no one needs new gear any more" problem is by adding new levels, and therefore new gear to aspire to. (That's for WoW, anyway, although the general concept tends to hold for the level-based MMOs I have any familiarity with - I tend not to make it to the "end game" in MMOs so I don't have a lot of firsthand experience.)

Theoretically, the barrier between a brand new player and the top gear in UO is the difficulty/expense of getting it - there's no programmatic restriction (nor do I think there should be - I can't think of criteria that wouldn't be terribly artificial.) But I do disagree with the idea that the only market for crafters should be new players needing low-end gear.

__________________
E. Jeremy Dalberg,
Mythic Entertainment
www.uoherald.com


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MYUO wisely said

Before we jump up and down on the topic, we need some more details on imbing - the difficulty, the mods can be added, etc.

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and Traveller agreed

I do agree, but I am also sure devs themselves have not clear ideas about that yet. :-)

EDIT: isn't it, Jeremy? :-)


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Jeremy stated

We'll be talking in much greater detail about Imbuing (and the other SA skills as well) at the Chicago Town Hall in a few weeks
.
__________________
E. Jeremy Dalberg,
Mythic Entertainment
www.uoherald.com

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#2
Tabbitha

Tabbitha

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you can find all the latest from Chicago or listen to the live recording here

kitiara posted some pics also which are worth a look :) if only to see the 11th anni cake Tancred presented the team with

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