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Official Rune-keeper discussion thread

- - - - - discussion official runekeeper thread

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3 replies to this topic

#1
Tabbitha

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Early September saw Faya LOTRO Community Officer start this discussion thread.

62 pages later and its still going strong.



Official Rune-keeper discussion thread


Please use this thread to discuss the Rune-keeper class coming with Mines of Moria™.
The intention of this thread is to keep the discussion about this class in one singular place, so that we can collect feedback and save having multiple threads discussing the same topic.

Rune-keeper

“Mystical linguists and masters of true names, Rune-keepers can heal in one battle and hurl destructive magic in the next using an innovative attunement system. Unleash the Fury of the Storm and call down lightning upon the enemy! Reveal the Favoured of the Valar and heal your fellowship. The choice is yours...”


__________________


The Lord of the Rings™: Mines of Moria™ now available for preorder.

Visit the brand new Codemasters Community Blog here: www.maycontaingamers.com

~~~~


Heres one players comments who isnt keen on the new class.

Coben

The Runekeeper:

Wielding magical powers that only Valar and Maia could. Has the innate ability to make Prof. Tolkien spin in his grave.

Seriously though, I am aware of the fact that the RK is coming, I've stated numerous times (and I'm not the only one who did so) that I'm quite unhappy about it.
I just want to know one thing (from the guys at Turbine):

What were you thinking?

The quote "it's an RPG, you just got to have mage nukers" really isn't a justification at all! As someone put it: "The RK is not gonna make people who don't play LotRO play Lotro, it's gonna make people who play LotRO not play LotRO."

I can't see any justification for making such a class, other than a desperate attempt to drag over some crowd from the Big One out there, which is not gonna happen, because it does a better job at what it does right now.

MoM would be (or would have been) just as exciting with only one new class or none, in adittion to all the new content that's coming.

Maybe Mr. Steefel could issue some sort of official and honest statement, other than giving interwievs to some 3rd party...

~~~~

Although I havent seen any of what the poster below writes,I sure hope it doesnt spill out into the game,as that would be a very sad state of affairs.faded_Glory informs us all

This RK debate has gone on for a long time now and everything that can be said about it has been said in one way or another, and many times over. That's all fine and wonderful, everybody has their opinion and a forum is the place to express them.

But let's all be careful to keep this stuff outside of the game. There is another thread where someone called for a boycott of RK players, kins and fellowships with RK's.
That goes too far imo and is potentially very damaging to the game as a whole. Please don't start to bring out-of-game divisions into the game.
This can cause no end of friction and frustration, and may peeve off people to the point where they no longer may want to play the game at all.

If you don't like a class, don't play one, that is your right. It is also your right not to join a FS or kin for whatever reasons, incluing there being a RK in it.
But calling for boycotts and whatnot of other player characters simply because of their class crosses the line from legitimate differences of opinion to damaging actions, even griefing.
Dividing the player base over an issue like this is just plain stupid and might cause real long-term damage to the game we all love. Imagine our characters having these same discussions in the game as we have on the forum - terrible, terrible idea.


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I wholeheartedly agree with that and that was page ONE.!!

I jumped about 30 pages to see what the mood was further along but as most players were quoting others it didnt help.So I ended up looking at all the pages and found some good points put across.

contd

[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]


#2
Tabbitha

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Seemingly Jeffrey Steeple had upset the apple cart mostly,but I didnt know why.I finally found a post from Yalle that threw SOME light on the matter




I promised myself I wouldn't bite, but I can't help myself... Posted Image

What bothers me about the rune-keeper isn't so much that it bends the lore to the point of breaking. Let's face it: the basic assumptions behind this game is lore-breaking. I mean, lots of elves in Bree?!? Hobbits running around Angmar in full heavy armour?!? The entire Shadows of Angmar storyline is against the written word of the book. But I accept those things, because it wouldn't be much of a game without them.

I also accept the ministrel and the lore-master, even though they stretch the lore almost as much as the rune-keeper, because in a traditional MMORPG you need a healer class and you need a crowd control class.

What bothers me about the rune-keeper is that it breaks the lore without being necessary. I just fail to see the need for a hybrid nuker/healer "mage" class. If you want to play a nuker, roll a hunter. They fill the nuker roll brilliantly. If you want to be a healer, roll a ministrel. They can do fairly decent damage in war-speech stance, so they can pretend to be nukers too. If you feel a strong urge to play a fireball-throwing "mage", roll a lore-master!

I'm also annoyed by Mr. Steefel's comments on the matter. In the Eurogamer MoM preview he said that "you've just got to have magic users" and in another Eurogamer interview he said that "this is an RPG, it must exist". I don't agree at all. An average, generic fantasy RPG might need magic users, but The Lord of the Rings Online doesn't.

He was also quote in the Gamesradar preview as saying "When you’re a level 60 in an MMO fighting The Watcher with just swords and arrows, it just doesn’t feel right". This is just plain wrong. It feels absolutely right. We've killed a freaking Balrog, with just swords and arrows! We've defeated a nazgûl and Udunion, a "mighty fire-demon sprit" mini-balrog thingy, with just swords and arrows! Why would The Watcher need magic?

The lore is this game's greatest asset. It is its Unique Selling Point. Without the lore LOTRO would just be another generic fantasy game.

Turbine may attract certain new customers by adding things like the rune-keeper, but they also risk alienating some current customers. I believe that the ones they risk alienating are the truly loyal customers, and that the ones they attract are more likely to leave whenever a new, kewler MMO comes along.

Sorry about that. I'll crawl back under my rock now.


Coben liked what he read

Brilliantly put, sums it all up very nicely!

Some lore-bending / breaking had to be done at launch, and we've all accepted the fact that without it, the game would be unplayable. But the RK is superfluous and unnecessary. Other classes already do what it can do, and the way he's gonna do things is upsetting many people. LotRO and MoM are NOT unplayable without a RK though...

Why have it in the first place, then?


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but for me kallenai was the one who summed up the first 5-8 pages of the thread

Personally LOTR online is and will remain a game and a chance for some escapism from the grind of life, to chat with and explore a fantasy realm with a great guild of people. As a whole the guilds excited about MoM and everything it brings to the game, for some this means rolling the new classes of the Warden and the Runekeeper.

Does everyone in the guild like the idea of the new classes well yes and know, the main concern being whether they balance out the current class roles. The odd member is concerned that the Runekeeper might be a tad too magical, but we are all mature enough to accept each others opinions and wait and see.

We all interpret LOTR in different ways, from the books to the films to the game, Tolkeins works were in many cases never finished, his ideas and theories on the world of Middle earth were evolving. So in that way media that moves beyond the books be it film or a PC MMO game will each evolve in their own manner as well. LOTR Online will evolve with each expansion, be it further new classes, mounts, zones to explore and with each things will develop. Obviously not everyone will agree with the direction the game goes in, but then thats true of all MMO's, developers simply can not please everyone all the time.

Will I play a Runekeeper, nope probably not because its not my play style, I prefer to melee and get up close and personal with the forces of Angmar/Mordor. If other players wish to roll a Runekeeper then that is as much their choice as mine is to stick to melee classes.

People have every right to disagree with adding the Runekeeper, but theres a difference between having a mature opinion and deciding to end a subscription and casting down some perceived personal injustice that adding a new class to an mmo is an affront to them and their view of Tolkiens world
and lore.

I'm deeply saddened that the last 2-3 weeks have seen some frankly vicious trolling and flaming on these boards in regard to the Runekeeper and MoM. The tone and fury posted by certain unnamed individuals on the forums have drawn comparisons in my mind of real world events. Where individuals can use threats or shout louder than the rest simply because someone else might have a different interpretation of a religion and its writings.

For the silent majority who just play the game and never voice an opinion on these forums I'm sure they will each make a choice if they have the time, money, interest in purchasing Mines of Moria. The anger demonstrated by some on here will have no impact on those subscribers, so at the end of the day those who disagree for whatever reason on the direction of LOTR Online and Mines of Moria will have to make their own decision on whether they remain a sub or leave.

Just remember, new and younger players to LOTR Online might be using these forums, lets keep this a nice friendly community and keep the trolling and flaming out of it. Posted Image


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and Spiderdan wisely posted

Kinda sat on the fence myself, but all I can say at hte moment is that there must have been some sort of call for this class. The game doesn't require it, nor the Warden, but perhaps some other aspect does?

I dunno. The mechanic behind the RK looks interesting. I like the idea of being able to adjust myself during a fight depending how much of one thing or another I do, but the idea of millions of mages wandering around ME is gradually becoming a concern for me. I just worry that it might make Gandalf look moer like your average Joe than the spectacularly powerful beaing he's meant to be. Let's hope an RK can't solo a balrog eh?

I'll probably try it, as I'll try the warden. Hell, I'd be robbing myself of a proper opinion if I didn't. But right now, I'd say my heal/DPS meter is right slap-dab in the middle of like and dislike. I'll just have to wait and see.


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Adryn
wondered if any one has this link


there was a past interview with steefel where he said something along the lines of (and don't quote me on this XD)

they're catering for the needs of the rpg-player fanbase

-.- lol

anyone remember or have the link?

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Sure enough :)


I think you're looking for the Eurogamer preview


~~~~

contd

[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]


#3
Tabbitha

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Tiara puts her thoughts across.


First of all; This is an excellent read while being bored on work! Thanks for the input all Posted Image

I think everyone agrees that the Runekeeper is breaking the lore, especially with those Sith influences as shown in the screenie.

However, we cannot do anything about it while they implement it anyway. Will they lose subscribers if they do? Maybe a few, but honestly, lore-scholars, will you leave the game because of the introduction of the new class? The game is, in my opinion, too great to leave because a new class is introduced.

I think the majority of the playerbase doesn't agree with the lore-breaking class, but accept it anyway. Just as they accept the fact that you can fight a Balrog, have Hobbits fighting in the frontline, swords lighting up when you draw them, Ents magically summoned in a fight and scream creatures to death.

Ingame I think it will be a class which people will primarily play for the destructive magic and doubt if it will replace the Minstrels. As stated before by other posters, I think a lot of RK players will rebel when they are asked by the Fellowship to go into Healer mode. My opinion is that only a few will actually use all healing-mode in a quest and wonder if they should have implemented it in the first place. Yet, it will be a cool class to watch in action and makes the "LFM need Minstrel" prolly less frequent imho.

I, for one, won't roll a Runekeeper. Not because of the lore-breaking, but because I dislike playing mage classes (in any form). And while they are breaking the lore, can we now have Dwarven and Elven Captains too? Posted Image

Kind regards,


~~~~


I think everyone agrees that the Runekeeper is breaking the lore, especially with those Sith influences as shown in the screenie.

However, we cannot do anything about it while they implement it anyway. Will they lose subscribers if they do? Maybe a few, but honestly, lore-scholars, will you leave the game because of the introduction of the new class? The game is, in my opinion, too great to leave because a new class is introduced.

I think the majority of the playerbase doesn't agree with the lore-breaking class, but accept it anyway. Just as they accept the fact that you can fight a Balrog, have Hobbits fighting in the frontline, swords lighting up when you draw them, Ents magically summoned in a fight and scream creatures to death.

Ingame I think it will be a class which people will primarily play for the destructive magic and doubt if it will replace the Minstrels. As stated before by other posters, I think a lot of RK players will rebel when they are asked by the Fellowship to go into Healer mode. My opinion is that only a few will actually use all healing-mode in a quest and wonder if they should have implemented it in the first place. Yet, it will be a cool class to watch in action and makes the "LFM need Minstrel" prolly less frequent imho.

I, for one, won't roll a Runekeeper. Not because of the lore-breaking, but because I dislike playing mage classes (in any form). And while they are breaking the lore, can we now have Dwarven and Elven Captains too? Posted Image

Kind regards,

~~~~

Did anyone actually post they were looking forward to the RK class or any good points for it?

Heck yes :P


How people can say that the RK won't be a good healer is beyond me. It's stated that he won't have the 1k+ insta heals of the minstrel but be more a preventative healer, stacking HoTs on the group to prevent the morale dropping in the first place.

The one heal skill shown is very powerful if you consider that it's probably a L1-5 skill! How much morale total do you have at early levels? 2-300..., the mobs hit for 10-20 damage. imho that skill will keep you at max morale for 30s.

This is where the RK will get it's soloability from. Stack a few HoTs on themselves, daze the mob (a balance skill) and start building DPS. By the time the mob is out of stun, you'll be at max morale with a HoT ticking off heals and you'll be DPSing the head off him.

Scribe's spark does about 120 damage with a 3s cooldown. That's great dps, and it too is a basic skill. With full attunement it'll do 170 damage, that's some damage for a low level character from one of their basic skills.

If after 20s your own morale is dropping, stun again, start stacking more HoTs and resume ass whomping Posted Image

To me, with only 3 skills known, I can see the RK being a monster as a solo class. I salivate at the prospect of the effect of the higher level skills Posted Image Remember they will also have AoE and debuff skills from the Chill of Winter skills.

In a boss fight I can see it going like this... debuff (frost), stack DoTs on the mob(fire), Nuke him (Lightning). If you are supporting a healer, you'll probably start by stacking HoTs on the group to keep their morale high. Then switch to debuff and dps. Using balance skills when the HoTs are running out to start again.

I can see the RK being in a constant state of assessing the fight and preparing to do the right thing at the right time. This could lead to a huge difference in how the class is played and used in a group. This to me is great news. I'm getting bored of the same classes, same uses, same thing over and over again. The RK will add a little spice to the mix. The versatility would seem to be a double edged sword, a good player will be a huge asset but a bad one could be a disaster.

One thing we have to remember is that the RK may not (probably won't) have an "auto-attack". This will moderate the amount of damage being done a bit.

I didn't think we'd be able to swap from DPS to Heal so fast though. Could be really interesting!


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Posted by Strap Good news everyone! The Dev Diary for the Rune-keeper...

http://www.lotro.com/article/585

I wont comment on it yet. Posted Image

~~~~


when he did comment tho, he brought some much needed humour to the thread


~~~~

Right. Time to comment on the dev diary...

It is just so amazingly familiar... Steefel's comments have been spot on, there is no amazing premise, its exactly the stretch he said it would be. The dev was directed to introduce a glass cannon called the Rune-keeper, because whoever was doing the directing believes there is a desire for such a class. Many MMOs have one... but the game was released without one! The Rune-keeper arranges runes in the right order to make words... which then become lightning, fire and ice damage... damn impressive really.

The interesting reading was with the Rune-keeper's foretelling ability. It is going to be very hard not to make fun of this, I mean how hard can it be to get Thaurlach to drink a cup of tea, turn the cup upside down on the little plate, turn it around three times and then patiently listen to you foretelling its death while peering into the cup Posted Image... sorry, its just irresistible. Anyhoo... its an interesting part of the class, I'll give them that. The most interesting thing being "allowing them to change what will happen"... wow - this guy is truly amazing.

He's better than Galadriel, I mean her mirror wasn't very reliable. It only told you things that were, things that are, and things that yet may be... and it was a little hard sometimes to tell if the goblin your seeing died a horrible death due to fire 30 minutes ago, actually died while you are busy foretelling or may die somewhere in the future when he accidently sets fire to his tunic while cooking a rat. Posted Image

The dev did his best in an extremely difficult position, and I dont blame him one little bit.

Let's see what beta feedback does to this gem. I do apologise for poking such fun, but its better to laugh than to get angry or sad. Posted Image


~~~~


So whats the thoughts of UOForum members on the Rune Keeper.?





[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]


#4
and bears

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An informative summary ... I think I can see both sides (and would rather they met in the middle).

My ex was a huge Lore nut, and would be muttering in a very dissapointed matter at this new class - what we've seen so far is lore breaking and somewhat pandering to the idea of what 'an rpg needs' ... I'm a little sad about it from that perspective ... it just seems like 'We need a mage class!!!' and no more thought than that.

I don't think it's a reason to quit, boycott kinships and fellowships, refuse to interact with players or any of this other hoo hah though ... that's just silly. Nor is it a reason to tear people a new arsehole in 44pt bold red text ;). Hopefully it shows up, and once people make fifty million new ones to try out the class everything settles down and it becomes another part of a very fun and detailed game :).

With that, and provided they balance it properly so hunters don't get left out as dps/nuke, I shall hold my peace and be happy ... I may even try the class out somewhere ;).
"The real battle is won in the mind"
Our doubts are traitors
/ And make us lose the good we oft might win /
By fearing to attempt
- Measure for Measure





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