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gold sink

- - - - - gold sink

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25 replies to this topic

#1
burnttrees

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if i where to fix something it would be to put in the one true tried and tested gold sink (regents)

I would change lrc from 100% to 70% this would force players to go out and buy regents this would also have a larger effect then just magery as it would also effect necromancy and chivalry.

This would also help with bored thief's as it would give them the ability to go out and steal regents in fel and give them a reason to help and work with others or just to grief the mages :P

#2
Stukov

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Hm,no

#3
Arioch

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Hm,no


Care to elaborate? I'm not trying to be antagonistic, but two word answers are usually reserved for GM's and Devs... hehe... Would love to hear why you don't think this is a good idea (I personally haven't passed judgement on it yet) and/or what your ideas on this topic might be. Thanks!=)
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#4
Nydon

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i think i agree , every game needs a gold sink . it would suck for the newly rolled mage , i know i rolled one and went about like a mad feret looking for anything that was lrc till i got to 100% . but regs are a good way to get gold out of the game . and we managed well before they put in LRC so 70% max would still be great to have . i know i dont even carry regs anymore on my mages , it takes away from the need to even have regs in the game the way it is . only people that benifit from LRC real are the ones thats played at least a little while and know what to look for and have a little more money and can afford the regs , the new player that cant afford them has to rely on them .
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#5
Mags

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i remember starting out in brit... went something like this...

go to the brit cemetary (hope I don't die) kill and loot everything I could (using the regs I was born with) run to the mage shop buy as many regs as I could with the gold I looted. rinse and repeat.. gained skill but never gained a gold coin. it was fun, it was tiresome at times (I could buy only a few regs at a time) I could adjust to 70 % but I do like my lrc :)
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#6
Moonstar

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when i was a newbling i spent lots of timke running around picking reagents off the ground where they spawned.. and for extra money i'd pick up all the stuff on the floor at the bank and sell them at the shops in town.


I Don't like the idea. I got a sorcerer's suit and i intend to use all 100% LRC on it. You're welcome to run around with an incomplete lrc suit if you want to but dont drag other ppl down with you.
I better gold sink would to have a metaphysical shop or some other sort of new shop in towns . They could sell interesting thinsg that are strictly decor and high prices . and maybe randomize what they sell each day. idk but I think if you're going to make a gold sink it should leave a person feeling satisfied ( walk away with soemthing that isn't going to just get used up like regs)

#7
Riboflavin

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I'd support the idea.
But not reagents... why?
Cause it affects, obviously, only characters who are using magery. It would penalize using this skill only. (Alchemists arent affected, as they have to pay already for regs).
Now, if in one way or another the other "money-earning" skills would be taxed as well, that would be a try worth. But I presume it would be quite tricky to put such a fair and tested system into reality.

I'd rather go with taxing real estate. Why?
1) People who own a big house has usually a higher income (= fairness of taxes).
2) Almost everyone who has money to some extend has also a house (=everyone has to pay, not only a part of the community).
3) Would increase the "desire" to play (=earn money) UO. People who don't play will eventually fall short of money thus either lose the house or log in.

I wonder though whether such a sink-system would ever be implemented. This problem of too much money going around is present since a decade (!). Why should it change ever? :-/
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#8
Nydon

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i personaly think Regs are the ideal thing for this , you have to have em to recall , or use chilvery , which cost gold to tithe , so why shouldnt recall cost also . the only use for regs in the game right now are for begining mages that cant realy afford them anyway , and alch . so realy it makes since to either make magery mana based only , and do away with the need for regs in casting , or go with a 70-75% max LRC .

P.S. oh , and inscription uses some also , but not a ton as i can see it now a days .
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#9
Riboflavin

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i personaly think Regs are the ideal thing for this , you have to have em to recall , or use chilvery , which cost gold to tithe , so why shouldnt recall cost also . the only use for regs in the game right now are for begining mages that cant realy afford them anyway , and alch . so realy it makes since to either make magery mana based only , and do away with the need for regs in casting , or go with a 70-75% max LRC .

Chiv is an add-on so to speak to your weapon skill. As magery is the "main" skill. That would be like to tax each swing with a sword or kryss.
Point is, a gold sink is like a tax, imho. And a general tax shouldn't penalize one group. (There are different purposes of taxes in rl, of course. Which could include to disfavour a certain action/behaviour, e.g. smoking). So, either different taxes would be implemented. Or one single tax, which affects 95% of the community.

Of course, there was a time without LRC. And it worked. You could have a rough time getting your bag with regs back from the monsters. While being unable to heal yourself. But of course, 75% LRC would still mean that you could cast any spell. Just with a 3/4 change to fizzle.
I'm okay-ish with reducing the cap at LRC in general. Just not in the context of "money-sink". See reasons above.
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#10
Nydon

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Chiv is an add-on so to speak to your weapon skill. As magery is the "main" skill. That would be like to tax each swing with a sword or kryss.


i can see this line of thinking if LRC counted towards chiv . but there is nothing that reduses the amount of tithing needed per spell . and i dont mean to totaly take away LRC , just cap it to wear it does cost SOME to cast the spells .
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#11
Tovladian Soltyr

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Honestly Regs aren't a good gold sink, there are to many ways to get them other then buying them off the mage vendors. T-maps, SoS's, Killing red mages, regs spawn randomly all over the ground, etc....

A TRUE gold sink is when you get a non-sellable item in return for the gold spent.

My suggestion would be a "Shaman" or a "Priest" that if you give gold to he gives you a beneficial buff of some sort for X amount of minutes. Like giving a shaman 50k gets you +10 STR or INT or DEX for 1 hour. Stuff like that, or maybe even a Bribe system. You slip the animal trainer a 25k+ check to be able to store 1 more animal in the stables.

A gold sink should give you something in return that is beneficial but not something that can be re-sold. Like the Hair Dye person that use to charge 500k for Pure white hair, that was a TRUE gold sink, cause it gave you something that looked cool but didn't have some sort of huge effect on the game and also didn't get another items into circulation that could just be sold for gold.
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#12
Stukov

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You can get buffs already from Sphynx for 5K gold,but thats like generally useless and 5K is nothing even for a few days newbie thas has a rune to despise ettins or shame ellys.Economy does indeed need a radical change but well its not easy to figure out how,or it would have been fixed ages ago.

#13
Arquestian

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i can see this line of thinking if LRC counted towards chiv . but there is nothing that reduses the amount of tithing needed per spell . and i dont mean to totaly take away LRC , just cap it to wear it does cost SOME to cast the spells .


I personally think removing 100% LRC is a horrible idea, it only punishes one group and it was one of the things I always hated about UO.

If this goes in, I propose that every swing of a weapon cost you a minimum of 20 gold. Regs are expensive when you have to buy in bulk, and it isn't a one time fee, it is constant. Not only that, but add necessary Regs to Ninjitsu, Bushido, Chivalry (I mean come on, costing you a few gold every time you use a skill is not comparable to regs) and so on, give it a 75% chance as well.

Then things would be fair...oh and when you die you have to go back and take your weapons and armor back from monsters because even with insurance you can't keep them...that is fair.

#14
Nydon

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if you'll notice in the last part of that quote i said to CAP lrc , not cancel it , right now it cost NOTHING to cast a spell as opposed to it costing to repair weapons , to tithe , ect for a warrior type . there is zero expence for a mage with 100% lrc . so i think lowering the lrc cap to say 75% would equal it out . everyone in the game uses either chiv or magery to get arouind , so make it to where either one will cost something .
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#15
Rashad_FwD

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you all forget what it was like to buy regs pre LRC?
you had the same groups of ppl with packhorses buying up all the regs in all the towns to sell them on their vendors at an inflated price.. theres your gold sink.. paying someone else for the regs you got beat buying at the npc vendor.. except its not a sink at all.. its just trading gold.

i like the idea of the marketplace, random otherwise unobtainable useless items that ppl want.. they talked about this with floor coverings WAY back in the day.. and you see where we get our rugs from now.

#16
Nydon

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just give the vendors an unlimited amount of each reg , that way there will be no market to have to buy from other players . and dont forget , its just lowering the lrc to 75% , not doing away with it entirely .
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#17
Arquestian

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if you'll notice in the last part of that quote i said to CAP lrc , not cancel it , right now it cost NOTHING to cast a spell as opposed to it costing to repair weapons , to tithe , ect for a warrior type . there is zero expence for a mage with 100% lrc . so i think lowering the lrc cap to say 75% would equal it out . everyone in the game uses either chiv or magery to get arouind , so make it to where either one will cost something .


I noticed you said 75% as I even used that percentage in my post, but the difference is, as a caster you still have to pay to repair items, and it costs you what, 1% of the cost to repair a weapon that it costs a caster even with 75% LRC to buy regs?

It is not at all balanced even at 75%, not to mention the fact that a caster is handicapped if they can't get their regs back even with that 75% as if you have been a caster or crafter 75% means you could cast 50 times fine, and then fizzled 40.

Yes as a melee I get hit more often which raises the cost of repairing an item, but even so as a caster I would spend way more in regs. And regs even available in unlimited amounts will still cost many a lot more than others which is not fair. Garlic costs 3 gold per on an NPC vendor so I buy all of it, and after 1-2 purchases the price goes up. By the time another caster gets there, now the garlic costs 17 gold per. You have to buy it though because you have to have it to do anything, or buy it from my vendor at the same price as the NPC in larger amounts.

I am not totally bashing the idea, if you wat 75% LRC, just make Chivalry spells randomly cost 1000 tithe 25% of the time, or make Ninjitsu, Bushido, Chivalry, use regs like casting with the same ruleset that way they have to carry stacks of 8 regs at a time. Do so as well for all melee skills and then make mobs start looting weapons or better yet, drastically lower the HCI cap.

Gold sinks are great for SOME people, but not everyone. Not everyone has a ton of money to spend just playing the game doing everyday things. Don't punish everyone for the pocketbooks of a few.

#18
Rashad_FwD

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I noticed you said 75% as I even used that percentage in my post, but the difference is, as a caster you still have to pay to repair items, and it costs you what, 1% of the cost to repair a weapon that it costs a caster even with 75% LRC to buy regs?

It is not at all balanced even at 75%, not to mention the fact that a caster is handicapped if they can't get their regs back even with that 75% as if you have been a caster or crafter 75% means you could cast 50 times fine, and then fizzled 40.

Yes as a melee I get hit more often which raises the cost of repairing an item, but even so as a caster I would spend way more in regs. And regs even available in unlimited amounts will still cost many a lot more than others which is not fair. Garlic costs 3 gold per on an NPC vendor so I buy all of it, and after 1-2 purchases the price goes up. By the time another caster gets there, now the garlic costs 17 gold per. You have to buy it though because you have to have it to do anything, or buy it from my vendor at the same price as the NPC in larger amounts.

I am not totally bashing the idea, if you wat 75% LRC, just make Chivalry spells randomly cost 1000 tithe 25% of the time, or make Ninjitsu, Bushido, Chivalry, use regs like casting with the same ruleset that way they have to carry stacks of 8 regs at a time. Do so as well for all melee skills and then make mobs start looting weapons or better yet, drastically lower the HCI cap.

Gold sinks are great for SOME people, but not everyone. Not everyone has a ton of money to spend just playing the game doing everyday things. Don't punish everyone for the pocketbooks of a few.


the gold sink idea in my opinion, great idea.
the route you're (not you specifically Arquestian) suggesting to get there, bad bad bad.
most of the proposed ideas are taking away content of the game.
its never good when they give content then take it away..
need i remind anyone of the diminishing returns fiasco?
if you want to blame anyone for the economy in uo, or the current item based situation, direct your anger and loathing towards the ones who spearheaded AoS (age of smelting). Or ingot dude and the others that FLOODED the market with 1 mil checks from selling ingots, Or the developers that thought the game needed a radical change by adding items that stacked up for awesome template enhancments..
i've got 10+ yrs in UO and several yrs in other online games and i can assure you nothing pisses off the customer more than having content taken away.
and on the other side of the coin, nothing makes ppl happier than seeing new content..
so, gold sink? yeah.. make'em buy something they 'want'.. not something they 'need'.

#19
Arquestian

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I agree with you completely Rashad and I have been gaming online and of both for over 15 years. Nothing upsets the players more than giving them things then taking them away.

Also gold sinks still don't solve problems for players without a lot of money, it may or may not effect the market as a whole but generally the players without a great deal of money are just again left out of things.

Gold sinks however when applied to a game well give you more than just a one hour buff. They give you items and such that you can either keep indeffinately, or give you truly helpful effects which are not really expensive.

#20
Rashad_FwD

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Also gold sinks still don't solve problems for players without a lot of money, it may or may not effect the market as a whole but generally the players without a great deal of money are just again left out of things.


actually, if applied right, it wouldnt affect the "have-nots" at all.. you dont make a gold sink something that's useful, you make it something thats useless, but at the same time desirable.. home decor, thats not essential.. yet desirable.. titles on paperdolls.. useless things.. and if the "have-nots" so desire to have one of said useless items, it gives them something to strive for..

Gold sinks however when applied to a game well give you more than just a one hour buff. They give you items and such that you can either keep indeffinately, or give you truly helpful effects which are not really expensive.


thats another form you could look at.. something that decays over time.. something non transferable.. something that noone can turn and make a profit off of... but again, i wouldnt suggest anything thats useful, or that gives the 'haves' and advantage over the 'have-nots'.. because thats rewarding the rich and punishing the poor..





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