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What would you remove from UO, and why?

- - - - - remove uo

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33 replies to this topic

#21
dhekke

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DiP, even if we have a small drain, closing he faucet can make the water level lower..

It's not the best option, but I don't see how the drain could be enlarged

We are Ultima Online


#22
Magister_Returns

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@DiP:

Purpose is to:
- Remove the motivation for gold script farmer
- Halt and eventually reduce inflation
- Make crafting viable
- Keep thieves as a viable profession

1) We've frozen the gold in game at its current level. This prevents future inflation while ensuring gold is available to power existing mechanics, i.e. insurance and chivalry. Some gold will still enter the economy via high-level monsters only (probably need to end 'gold explosions' off champs). This amount will be miniscule compared to the billions per week, per shard.

2) We can gradually draw down the remaining gold by reducing the gold available to NPCs from 100% of chiv/insurance to 99, 75, 42, or whatever "works." Someone smarter than me will have to define "works." This method reduces the pain of the huge transition somewhat.

I submit that items only drive the economy because they can be insured and sold easily between players. Your solution deals with the trading btw players, but kills a player class in the process. My (admittedly slapdash and imperfect) proposal also addresses the problem of insurance to some degree.

Look at it another way: is someone really going to pay 100M for an item if they know they will almost certainly never be able to reclaim that 100M - ever?

Maybe. I don't think so.

~M

#23
DiP

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I submit that items only drive the economy because they can be insured and sold easily between players.


So take out insurance, or properties to make items not such a need in game that players will spend millions to get one. Why take a shot at the shoulder when you can stab the heart of the problem?

Look at it another way: is someone really going to pay 100M for an item if they know they will almost certainly never be able to reclaim that 100M - ever?


Of course not, but who will be able to keep an item for sale at 100M if no one will ever buy it? Then the entire trade/merchant/economy is dead.

The price, obviously, would be dropped to make 1k the new 100M.

DiP, even if we have a small drain, closing he faucet can make the water level lower..

It's not the best option, but I don't see how the drain could be enlarged


Which is exactly what the BoS "fix" was. Just a band-aid fix.

It'd be exactly the same as taking out a couple extra 00's at the end of everyone's gold stack.

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Thanks again Maddux!

Adri: women don't discuss men while in the bathroom, we sacrifice small animals and smoke tampons *rolls eyes*


Adam: aye and in order to expedite the production of solidiers, i kill off the old people (Carp was right, Adam IS evil!)

#24
dhekke

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The thing is that item properties rendered NPC vendors useless... and that was the biggest money drain in game.

The only way that player-trade can survive without inflation is giving NPC vendors a bit of advantage...

We are Ultima Online


#25
Pennywise

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D-d-d-dem dang diapers.

#26
Magister_Returns

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DiP said, "The price, obviously, would be dropped to make 1k the new 100M."

Then I declare victory. Any player gathering resources and crafting and selling to NPCs for a few gold here and there could eventually hope to amass 1K. The same is not true if the target price tag is 100M.

Again - I'm more focused on generating discussion than being "right." As I said in my original post, there are likely several aspects where I'm partly or wholly incorrect.

But there is still several billion gold per week, per shard being generated off monsters.

~M

#27
DiP

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Then I declare victory. Any player gathering resources and crafting and selling to NPCs for a few gold here and there could eventually hope to amass 1K. The same is not true if the target price tag is 100M.


If that's what you want, then just take the extra 0's off the stacks of gold as is.

I just see it as making the playerbase do extra work for nothing. It'll promote scripting more.

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Thanks again Maddux!

Adri: women don't discuss men while in the bathroom, we sacrifice small animals and smoke tampons *rolls eyes*


Adam: aye and in order to expedite the production of solidiers, i kill off the old people (Carp was right, Adam IS evil!)

#28
Magister_Returns

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Actually, I wouldn't mind removing zeros - except arbitrarily "taxing" the wealthiest UO players would cause more resentment than implementing a new system that didn't delete something already in someone's bankbox.

I vote conservative, too =P

~M

#29
Deraj

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Excellent post Dhekke.

You are right on about the removal or nerf of overpowered items, which has damaged every aspect of this game. The same can be said of insurance (particularly in its twisted relationship with overpowered items). I think the only thing I don't agree with is the old moongate system. I get where you're coming at but the game mechanics made the system a hassle. If they made days/night longer, or moon phases more significant, or travel more significant, then maybe it could add depth to the game. As it stands (or stood as the case may be), it was just a matter of double clicking the gate endlessly until you got to your destination, which was annoying.

And I hope you will all forgive me, I mostly skimmed the posts about the economy - but here's my take.

Understand firstly that the economy is tied to overpowered items in a major way. The fact that we can farm at even faster rates than before simply goes to show. Secondly, I'm not sure if anyone has noticed but monsters drop significantly more gold than they used to drop. So let's just keep the solution simple - nerf items and nerf gold drops. It's not a quick fix but it goes a long way in bringing the economy back in order over time.

The persistent problem with economic fixes is, no matter what, everyone is screwed (screwed in the sense that their wealth is devalued). So the question is, do you want to do that quickly and piss half the playerbase off? Or fix it overtime by gradually decreasing the gold "creation" through monsters, etc., and finding subtle ways over time to remove gold without gold sinks? I would vote the latter myself. I mean, by properly nerfing item properties the game would already be on the path to redemption, such economic management would only bolster the depth of the game.

There is so much more that could be said, but in order to keep my thoughts as a simple and straightforward approach, I'll leave it at that.
Still we loom in the mists as the ages roll away,
And we say of our folk, "they are here!"
That they built us and they died and you'll not be knowing why,
Save we stand on the bare plains of Wiltshire.

#30
Stukov

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Its true the game has turned totally item-based,and as of right now the richer get richer and poorer poorer.There is people soloing
peerlesses,and people leaving secondary characters in Doom all day to farm items,that require little skill to attain (yea shoot arrows,cast flamestrikes and send greater dragons while theres other 20 guys hammering the poor sod and hope to get your arty),the market is so flooded of items either way its hard to make profit unless you really got something really hard to obtain imo.

The item and trammel part is not really debatable,while I think taking UO back to Pre-AOS status has its sweet part,it would totally kill the game,as most people are actually Trammies.The game needs more incentives for new players and vets to return,not to kill what is left =) .Another part that bothers me is directly attached to what I said above,solo is way to go,whether you are hunting martys,idoc-ing,going doom,or in some silly cases soloing peerleses.My guild actually groups and many others on my shard to kill Peerless,as loot is instanced per player when it dies(as long group is broken before it dies,I believe).There is very little things to do in a group,crafting is a joke,market is flooded,current quest system in ML (lol) encourages scripters,as none in their cabals would spend 8 hours straight clicking same button with a 0.0000000000001% chance geting a recipe or a cool item.

In resume,what game needs,is more CONTENT,saying all of it must be done in groups is unfair as theres quite a few hard-core soloers,but a part of it,definitely.We had the same content for so long items are so devaluated im tired of seeing once really expensive items being tossed on banks floors,the economy is totally out of control.

On last note in this post,please make opening peperdoll NOT close bank window,its annoying geeeez.

#31
DiP

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On top of item properties/insurance removal, I'd also remove the cap EA has on developers the team is allowed to have. Or atleast raise it from +6 to +12.

Posted Image

Thanks again Maddux!

Adri: women don't discuss men while in the bathroom, we sacrifice small animals and smoke tampons *rolls eyes*


Adam: aye and in order to expedite the production of solidiers, i kill off the old people (Carp was right, Adam IS evil!)

#32
Adri

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If you want to take away some of the gold in the game, you'd have to make some more gold sinks. Take out LRC suits, for example. (I can hear the mages screaming already lol.) I used to horde regs every chance I got. Now, why bother? Up the price of insurance, while decreasing the amount your murderer gets. Maybe even a small charge every time you get rezzed by an NPC healer.

I remember when having one million gold was a huge, huge deal. A million and you were hitting the big time, baby! Now I have about ten mil or so, and am considered the poor relation of my guild. I also remember going to Moonglow cemetary, trying to kill things, and trying to loot without getting killed because I was low on regs and needed the money to buy more lol.

Things have changed in UO, period. First everyone wanted those neato uber leet items, yet now that we have them, people complain. Tamers never wanted to lose their valuable trained up white wyrms, yet now that we don't have to lose them, we have follower slots. There is a give and take on every change. Players adjust, then complain about changes. Human nature I think.

Yet if I could change one thing, I'd agree with Penny.... those horrid underwear I have been wearing for years now.

#33
dhekke

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It's really hard to make gold sinks that would actually work.
To end an inflated economy, like UO's is now, the amount of currency running around should be lowered, so that it aquires more value. And That has to be done without hurting newcomers too much...
Something like raising insurance and taxing ressurection would of course help the problem a lot, draining a lot of gold from the world, but still, I can make more money per killing than I lose on insurance... It's almost impossible to end a day in the red in UO, unless your play session is interrupted.

Once i thought about a deity system, in that, like chivalry, you'd pay money to get some minor boosts, like in stamina, mana, weight-capacity, resists, or something else. And the more you'd pay, the longer it would work.
This should be incredibly well thought-out, to keep things slightly balanced and still be attractive enough to justify the VERY steep price charged.
Something like this wouldn't be target at new players, or people with not a lot of money, but to the very wealthy, so 10 minutes of a good boost would cost over 2 million.
Still, it should be considered that you could use that million spent to make 4 million and then 3 other people would have to make nothing out of it for the system to break even...

I say let NPC vendors sell some trully good items, even high end ones, and raise the insurance price tenfold, so that it would be cheaper to just go and buy the item from a npc.
NPC really have to start beeing attractive again... they were the biggest drain, and now they're nothing.

We are Ultima Online


#34
Ciar2001

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I recently came back to game, a week to be precise I left originally in 2001 after they brought in Trammell and PvP slowly died a death, I was always into the pvp battles not pking only went red once in the 4 years I played, I am currently making 2 characters one for champ spawns so I can pvp and the other for pve, if you really asked me what I would like then it would be pre UO:R and seperate servers for pvp and for pve, mainly because the reason Origin/EA changed it was due to the rampant pking :) I personally learnt to deal with it and fight against pk's to me that was just part of the most realistic MMG to date, and I have played most of the new ones if they had a pvp server.

or if they couldn't do that then I would move the game back to relying on player made gm armour and weapons away from items that well you can't live without it's been the bane of plenty of games to date and i still dislike it, +120 scrolls the need for armour to compete the fact that even though the LRC suits or whatever they are called are amazing it still detracts from gaining a GM skill, my opinion could well change after I have been back in game a few months :)
Ciar O'Murchada ~ Cats/Europa UO {Sold}
Ciar O'Murchada ~ Europa {Reborn 2008}
Diabhalta Droch ~ Shadowblade~Mordred
Losing sleep since 1997 !!





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