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Can a game allow your character death relevance...

- - - - - character death game relevance

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32 replies to this topic

#21
Ferenhelm

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I think the best way to make death more painful would be a random piece of active armor, jewelry, weapon, or even a talisman being utterly destroyed or atleast making that object useless till it is repaired.
As for making Death more relavent, it would have to come back to RP. Role play deaths relavence into your game with other like minded individuals.

#22
Credinus

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Siege and factions are great for death penalties. Factions give the skill deductions and Siege leaves all your goodies in the open for others to claim as their own. Additionally, fame loss is a big death penalty for those of us that like our Lord and Lady status. ;)


The biggest problem with adding death penalties in UO on regular ruleset shards, though, is the simple fact that, unless you're a tamer (especially of the stealth variety) or a few other choice builds, you're -GOING- to die, and it's going to happen much more often than not until you have both A) GM+ in all your template's primary skills and B) very good items. Think about it... How is someone with 90 HP expected to not die against a group of monsters that all have over 300 HP, and all do 100+ damage per hit before resists?

And it all boils down to spawn rates. Am I the only one that thinks the spawn rates in a just about anywhere besides champ spawn spots are too high? The spawn rates were all built in a time when there would generally be multiple people hunting in the area, but the server populations nowadays leave most hunting areas where anyone that's not already good enough for the big mac daddies have to train are devoid of other hunters, and it only takes a few seconds or a single spike from a group of mobs to take down even someone in a full resist suit.

But I digress... I'm all for death penalties if the world were adjusted to be less lethal to anyone that doesn't have billions of gold to spend on epic items or time to spend on mastering taming. Resurrection sicknesses, maybe gold costs from your bank if you use a shrine, etc. Heck, even throw in some neat uses for existing skills... Like using excorcism to banish a spirit to another place in PvP or starting off in vampiric embrace when rezzed if you were killed by someone in VE. Could even add positive meaning in death, like chivalry/bushido links to a person and if that person dies, the person they are linked with takes a vow of vengeance against the killer and gets EoO-like effects aganist them. And now I cease my ramble.

#23
Chefb0yrg

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Shooot who says suicide runs are not a tactic... ask the Japanese Iraqi's, Afghany's. They all tried it.. obviously doesn't work to well, regardless it is still a tactic.

#24
Tamer King

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My thoughts on this are rather simple. I am happy with the current penalties involved with dying, if you want more penalties on your character fine don't insure your items.
Then the first time you die and cant return to your corpse thusly causing you to lose every single item you have worked for you may change your mind.

The fact is the penalties now are not that bad, but they are still harsh enough to hurt you should you die to often. A skill penalty would be a useful idea however you must also realize that some characters (tamers) rely on there skills much more then others.

I believe that the system of death in ultima has been handled just fine and dont feel i should be punished any more then i already am for dying, especially since you can die so easily in this game.

#25
Corvak

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The thing is...a character full of skills is a large investment of time... Nobody is going to willingly play a game where this much time can be lost from losing one battle.

Eve Online uses a harsh death penalty, but the skills are typically retained by the dead character. Because its sci-fi, death actually is 'permanent' , as you come back as a clone. You lose your ship and items in it, but are paid insurance based on the 'book value' of the ship (similar to how car insurance works today).

---

Permadeath is easier to implement and more effective in a pen and paper RPG like dungeons and dragons, where death can be permanent, unless a revive mechanic is used.

The group I play with does have a stipulation that should a character die off permanently, the player is able to build a new character of the same level as the one who died by the next session. The dead player's gear will remain on his body - if his friends manage to kill off whatever got him, they can reclaim his items for the incoming player. (and if he's lucky, theyll give him a proper burial :P) If not, and they are chased off, the monsters that killed him will take it - his gear will turn up elsewhere in the dungeon, at the discretion of the DM. He is a big fan of logic, instead of just 'you lost them, too bad.'

#26
Darla

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Lotsa reading...again.

I thought about the benefits of raising the insurance costs in the past, but, gold is so over-available and cheap. Therefore not a remedy for the issue brought up. Then someone mentioned the arties.

YEP!, I am in there. I really think that "combat" arties have done damage to the game. Having a tailor/fletcher and a b-smith went way out the window several years ago. Then, recipes came along and that helped. But, those super powerful combat arties still reside.

There should be more of a penalty for being a masochistic lemming. Although, that can be reduced through good team tactics. But what about the solo hunters? No character should be forced to fight in a group.

If, when dieing, the loss of a random "Artifact LVL whatever" occurs, it woould de-emphasize artiefacts and get crafters back where they should be. Only combat artifacts.

I guess it might help in a couple of ways.

If I wore/used combat arties, I could still; look to better tactics; change my masochistic attitude; and/or start using more crafted items.

just my .02gp

(but then, just what is considered a "combat" arty?)

(oh, a "time-out" to cool off/chug a beer/smoke something would help me...maybe 10 minutes)

#27
Corvak

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You are correct, Darla. Let me get my old man cane out.

'Back in the day' we didnt have insurance. We also didnt have runics, or artis, or any of the really 'valuable' stuff we didnt want to lose. Best you could get was Valorite platemail.

We lost our items when we died, but we could also mass produce what was then a decent set of armor and weapons by putting in a little effort mining or hunting in dungeons for leather.

#28
Warsong of LS

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You are correct, Darla. Let me get my old man cane out.

'Back in the day' we didnt have insurance. We also didnt have runics, or artis, or any of the really 'valuable' stuff we didnt want to lose. Best you could get was Valorite platemail.

We lost our items when we died, but we could also mass produce what was then a decent set of armor and weapons by putting in a little effort mining or hunting in dungeons for leather.


Let's go way back in the day! When there was no valorite plate, heck no colored ingots! Only colored plate you could be was from npc blacksmiths and it gave no special properties! =) When there was no recycling items for blacksmiths and tailors. When a GM BS or Tailor could stand at the brit forges all day and do great business. Ahh, memories, *shakes* fist, get off my lawn you pesky kids! :P
Hope is the first step on the road to disappointment

#29
Darla

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I remember before colored ingots came along and before colored leather/wood, too. I think they are a benefit to the crafter professions, though, so I didn't mention them earlier.

But, the prevelence of "combat" arties still are holding them back. Everyone wears arties.

I am just trying to give a possible fix. I'm not sure when the last "combat" artie was introduced. We are getting dyes and deco items and I hope "arties" released in the future stay in that realm.

In my suggestion for a fix, it would remove the rampant use of arties if a random artie on the body was lost when the character died. It would slow people from using them over recipe'd and non-artie armors/weapons.

The original subject was relevence of dieing. Sorry to drift.

#30
XCodes

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Seriously, runics will always have a place in the best suits. Especially various fighter/archer suits where there are so many different ways to be effective. The only reason caster suits are made up of mostly arties is because there are tons of artifacts with mods like SDI, Intelligence, and +Skill that fit into armor slots instead of Jewelery slots where you normally find them, and tons of others that have caster mods above what can normally be obtained on a given item, like the 2 FC on ornies, 40% LRC on Armor of Fortune, and the 20% DCI on Fey Leggings (that one breaks both rules).

#31
Belanos

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It used to be that if you died more than five times within twenty minutes, you incurred a twenty minute resurrection cooldown. Maybe they could bring this back?
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

... it's pronounced 'fel-ookah', not 'fel-oosha' ...

#32
Pitr

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Been a nagging annoyance for a long time, so time to have a mild rant =)

More and more, the tendency has been for bigger boss monsters and 'events' that are suicide runs - and often multiple suicide runs - for characters who try them. Eventually the monsters get beaten down, usually after multiple deaths and general mayhem for the players while they figure out workable tactics.

But it's a mmoRPG, where you are meant to have some connection, however remote, to the character you're playing. I can't see any way that gets strengthened when in order to just be present at important events in the life of the shard, your character becomes a masochistic lemming.

I'd not advocate drastic things like perma-death (if you want that, you can have it - just don't res your character!) or crippling of long-developed warriors, mages or tamers, but there is a limit to the scope to get people to relate to characters who then merrily get dismembered on a regular basis, leap up as good as new and then die horribly yet again a few seconds later.

Surely it's not impossible to get some sort of importance to a character death, rather than it's utter lack of meaning in the game now? Can't we have new and serious things to do where repeatedly dying isn't the only way to figure it out?

Or is that in the 'too hard' category? Easier to just stick a few hundred more resists on the monster, let it hit for a few hundred more points damage and blow up in a massive fireball, and have an apparently random 'weakness' that makes no sense in any way, so people can injure it - whilst still dying multiple times.

Challenging, yes, but involving and immersive in a game world? Pretty much the opposite.



Answer to your question...

We are all prisioners in a Gem Shard, we cant escape... not even when we die... we are bound to a cyclic world... and we interact and create entire communities based on our dreams and goals.

We're immortal ants.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

#33
Darla

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Pitr, Is that like being a masochistic lemming?


:reye
Darla





Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: character, death, game, relevance