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A Question for the UO Team on Powder of Fortification

- - - - - fortification powder question team uo

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3 replies to this topic

#1
Tabbitha

Tabbitha

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I have heard that the new invasion artifacts are not effected by Powder of Fortification.

I haven't tested this myself, so forgive me if this is incorrect.

Assuming it is true:

Jeremy, in a Five on Friday that dates to the introduction of the Virtue Artifacts, stated that their not being PoF-able was not a precursor to the elimination of Powder of Fortification from the game.

Ok, fine....However, the Redeemer, the Virtue Artifacts, and now the Invasion Artifacts are not PoF-able. In other words, every major new item introduced into the game recently.

Did you perchance mean "we are not eliminating PoF, but we are going to gradually reduce its usefulness by making it non-usable on every new item?"

If so, well the dev team has often suffered from us players feeling that we have to parse and dissect everything you all say. I had been trying to get away from that. It wasn't pleasant to look at every statement made and try to figure out what it literally meant on a word by word basis.

So....What's up?


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

If an item that is not sold on NPC vendors can be lost through normal use, it is of no use to me. No item that disallows PoF shall ever be touched by my hands.

~~~~

It's a design decision made on a case-by-case basis, that is a method of controlling the overall value and rarity of a given item. That's all.

(All the artifacts you've listed have been event-specific - it would probably be a reasonable deduction that the designers tend to prefer to limit the durability of event items. It's still case-by-case, though.)


E. Jeremy Dalberg
UO Community Coordinator
EA Mythic


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Translation: Event specific items are for decorating your house with. If it's neither ever-lasting nor replaceable, who is going to use it?

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Well, if the value of having it as a decoration (or simply *having it*, as a collectors' item) is greater to you than the value of getting the use of it for a period of time, then of course you won't use it. But that's still an individual value judgement, not an inherent property of the item.

E. Jeremy Dalberg
UO Community Coordinator
EA Mythic


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I have never seen a Redeemer used in combat, ever. The only virtue items I see used in combat are the aforementioned suits with massive self-repair. It's clear that your playerbase isn't going to use unpowderable items, but you keep giving them items they aren't going to use.

The cursed doom arties nobody uses are lame too.


~~~~

And yet still people collect them :)

E. Jeremy Dalberg
UO Community Coordinator
EA Mythic


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Translation: Event specific items are for decorating your house with. If it's neither ever-lasting nor replaceable, who is going to use it?


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I agree.

It's a pain enough already to get equipped enough to fight...let alone having stuff go poof on you.


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It's a design decision made on a case-by-case basis





It's a bad one.


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You are assuming the items were intended to be incredibly valuable, and therefore have failed in that. I am honestly not sure one way or the other - it's a design decision, and I leave those to the designers. But there are certainly reasons to create less-than-uber items, or items with substantial tradeoffs.

E. Jeremy Dalberg
UO Community Coordinator
EA Mythic


~~~~

...

Personally, I don't believe the devs should set out with the intention of making something incredibly valuable. Sure they should always do limited time event items every now and then, but based on the event itself.

Any "value" should remain a function of the secondary market IMO.

That's probably the best way, that way the official statement can always be "We do not create items to be rare or collectible. The collectibleness of an item is determined by the players"

Just IMO.


~~~~

And yet still people collect them




That's all they do. Why even waste time giving these items combat properties when, as non-replaceable, non-POFable items, no one ever does anything but collect them?
This is not the same as GM-crafted armor of pre-AOS: that stuff could be replaced easily: it could be CRAFTED.


~~~~

Lots of possibilities:

- to make a unique item type for the heck of it (two-handed sword)
- to try out some different special effects (vorpal blade, staff of pyros)
- to provide "I was there!"-type collectible items (how many times have I seen people talk about Ranger Armor?)
- to give relatively casual players some decent-but-not-overwhelming gear (Virtue Armor and the other dungeon drops, cursed Doom arties)

I know I've been wanting a classic Britannian Two-Hander for YEARS, strictly to satisfy my sense of continuity. (Of course, I tend to play in cheap, easily-replaceable, and solidly midrange gear, and don't see a problem in using and repairing an item until it's too low to be reliable, at which point it goes on the wall. Why not?)


E. Jeremy Dalberg
UO Community Coordinator
EA Mythic


~~~~

And yet still people collect them






Look people please get a clue and see what the Dev team is doing.

They are creating as much JUNK as possible to collect. Things that are hard enough to obtain that you keep them, but not things you will use up.

Holiday gifts - Instead of one or two items - here is a bag of 7 items for xmass last year. Shove those 7 x 6 chars in your house somewhere
Ophidian Invasion stuff - Yeah, we will make those useful one day 'wink'.
Blackrock - Here save all this blackrock - you'll find it usefull, really.
Virtue Armor - Here is some armor you'll want to pack rat away
Cursed Arties - Pretty to look at but unusable. Too pretty to throw out. Store those...
Halloween Items - Lanterns, pumpkins with names, ghoul statues, arty 11 pieces of junk, Power weapons etc....

THEN they sell you extra storage for $20.

Don't you see? They have given up on new players. They have given up on new content. They have decided - give people pixel crack and charge them more $$ to store it.

That is the best idea our development team can muster for increasing their revenue.

Fight the power - do NOT purchase the extra storage. Toss some of this junk out instead.


~~~~

u are right,

i dont buy ANYTHING from ea, since they trashed ML,
ML was a good expansion and then after we all had boght it, they trashed it.
basta,no more extra mo┬┤from me , till they fixed the game.

but as far as i can see, they do not fix anything, more thrash then ever bevore in uo.

they dont see what 8 million player like in wow, they do the total opposite of that LOL


(example: items cant break in wow, if dura 0 then it is not usable but after repairing it works again)
so what??


~~~~

WoW takes a different tack with limiting items - "soulbinding" or "no-drop/no-trade." Similar end result - the items don't circulate endlessly through the economy, and are useful to any given person for a limited amount of time - different way of going about it.


~~~~

Lots of possibilities:

- to give relatively casual players some decent-but-not-overwhelming gear (Virtue Armor and the other dungeon drops, cursed Doom arties)

so what your saying here is that a casual or new player has no shot at competing in the higher levels of the game, unless willing to go into the secondary market and equiping himself properly if he wants to pvp or have any shot at surviving a raid at a champ spawn.

why not have this event drop non cursed arties to give all a chance to obtain some gear that allows them to compete. why is the game so intent on protecting the secondary market where prices run close to 100 dollars or more for some of the most sought after articles?


~~~~

A few points, if I may:

Skrag, you could theoretically keep items in WoW forever (and I still have my Ebon Mask from level 50, because it looks supafly) but you outlevel them pretty quickly, and they become functionally useless. The only partial exception is raiding gear - the very top end stays relevant until then next level-cap-raising expansion pack comes out.

Onthefifty, if a casual player wants to equip him or herself for high level play, what would he or she do if no event was currently running? Are you saying that right now there's a gap in gear progression, in the current regular content? (I'm asking honestly, as I've never tried to get top-end gear. I will say, though, that that would be an issue we'd want to solve with permanent content, not event content.)

The dungeon drops are really aimed at the finished-New-Haven-what-next? crowd, in terms of power. This is... not the Stratics community, for the most part.

My specific playstyle, since people seem to care, is pretty RP-heavy. I build my templates based on character concept, gear up with whatever requires the least amount of thought to maintain (an all-70s blessed self repair suit is PERFECT for me, and I'd feel guilty if I'd had anything at all to do with its creation :P Plus, it suits my Paladin perfectly, RP-wise.) I also do a fair bit of crafting, more for my own satisfaction than any sort of profit. I'm currently working on splitting my crafting skills between several chars so I can take advantage of Arms Lore and still make every single craftable in the game :P Only thing I still want is a tamer, and as soon as I remember to get myself a 7th char slot code, that's next.


E. Jeremy Dalberg
UO Community Coordinator
EA Mythic


~~~~

[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]


#2
Tabbitha

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Here are the definable variables that you are missing about play concepts.

You and most normal people PLAY the game. RP/dungeon crawl/Mild PvP with friends. Gear is an end to a means, not the point of focus. (Enjoy the Journey)

Skrag and his compatriots LIVE the game. Each loss impacts them at a personal level. Each piece of gear is something to be proud of outside the game. If they lose an item, it is like losing a part of themselves. (Focus on the Destination)

An end to the everlasting uber gear would encourage the economy and force a certain small populace to reevaluate their existence in UO and the real world. The flip side it is to make a certain type of gear accessible to all and indestructible and have the unique items risked each time they travel. Heck I remember the old days when a mage’s hat and a set of plate would attract the PKs like flies. If you wanted to strut your stuff, you darn well better have the skills to back it up. People didnt run around with a Halberd of Vanquishing unless they really meant it.


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hey jeremy, nice sharing

to satisfy "superior" customer needs, try the following: Let people discover that the event items are not "powderable" - as it was done. Wait till the complaints start. Then deliver the following statement: "As you may have noticed, PoF can't be used on normal event items. However, very rarely indeed, there will items drop where you can use PoF on. You have to be very, very lucky; but at least it will be possible"

Of course, this will not be true. But you will drive the real powergamers crazy; they will KILLKILLKILL all hours to get that VERY SPECIAL ITEM; and if they don't succeed in getting it, you can simply say that they weren't lucky....


~~~~



This is something I can talk hours about, so Jeremy, anytime you or anyone else want to chat, just drop me a line.....I've spent YEARS on this subject (loot council for a top raiding guild in EQ).

But....to address these points....


It really depends on the effects on the items. In WoW, I only played a couple of characters upto level 50, but I played EQ for 5 years, in a HEAVY (6 nights a week) raiding guild. There are items that I kept for 3-4 years, because they were still useful (my 'tash' stick comes to mind immediately), and there are lots of items like that in EQ. And some times stay relevant even through a couple of expansion packs.

UO cannot develop items like this. There is no 'mid' game in UO. There is no evolving end-game. And the game is not designed to have one. You cannot progress like you do in EQ/WoW. The only thing 'evolving' in UO is the itemiztion of the game, and even that it limited to...ok, I have all 70's (or close) now what effects can I switch in a out. There is no growing of the character beyond that. There comes a point, when you cap out in skills, that there is no where else to go.

Example, one of the base skills in raiding is a healing rotation. That would be perfect for something like peerless....except for the fact that there is no agro control at all. You have to have tamers and mages casting EV's. That's the end game. It's one of the limitations of a classless structure. Even limited more to the fact that there is no leveling. Yes, in a multitude of ways UO is alot more veristile than the others, but that same versitility is also a very limiting factor. Melee'ers have to have dedicated healers, but in UO, there is no drive to even do that. No reason to.

There is no 'mid' game. And it really doesn't take much to go from beginning to the end as far as content (this does not include crafting or resource gathering). There are no limiting factors in progression like level. A new character can put on my archers all 70, 15MR, 35LMC suit. They aren't limited by skills (there's an idea, limit type of weapon usage to skill). (oh, and random point- it's a complete lack of thought and design and poor judgement that leather armor protects as well and better than metal....).

So, you are lacking a fundamental restriction in making characters go through any kind of 'progression'. Those quest items in Haven are cute, but really, there is better out there, and almost for free, even to a new character.

It isn't so much that there is a lack of gear progression, it's that there is no progression in general. If the dungeon event is aimed at getting new players the chance to get gear....well, looking at the stats on that gear...that doesn't make sense. Unless you get the full suit, there is no point in wearing any of the pieces of the armor. Honestly, any new player is better off going to mel and trying to get a crimmy.

If there was a limitation on gear based upon like skills, then I can see where you can say 'progression', but there isn't. And as much as UO would like, it's still a solitary game. There are no groups, no camps that really require more than one person to hold, no defined roles. There are times when you have a group of individuals together, but they aren't a group in the sense of getting a job done and each having their job/role/duty. And even if they DID, they don't get loot rights (yes, I believe that dedicated healers should get loot rights, even if they aren't in the party, because at a place peerless, if you are dedicated healer, you won't get loot rights).

With the way loot is done, it's completely random. As a new character is fighting creatures of his skill level, they are not going to get any 'mid level' gear. There aren't creatures of a certain level you can kill to get 'mid level' gear. It just doesn't exist. You can get the same chain mail tunic off ANY creature.

Anyway, it's time for dinner, l8r.


~~~~

With the way loot is done, it's completely random. As a new character is fighting creatures of his skill level, they are not going to get any 'mid level' gear. There aren't creatures of a certain level you can kill to get 'mid level' gear. It just doesn't exist. You can get the same chain mail tunic off ANY creature.




That's... sort of true. There are ranges of gear, affecting number of properties and intensity of properties, but it is pretty random. The "artifact"-type gear is what ISN'T random, and it's generally limited to being appropriate-power for the monster dropping it. (We ain't gonna put Doom arties on lizardmen.)

Part of the problem with discussions like this is that none of us are new players. Making a new character and getting it set up with a more-or-less complete template and set of gear is trivial - it might take some time and gold, but there's no real "exploration." A brand new player is more likely to say things like, "Hmm, Swordsmanship. Well, swords are shiny. And, hey, a Dragon Slayer Sword! That sounds cool. I'll use that." and learn what works and what doesn't by trial and error. Right now, other than the new dungeon drops, your gear choices are between "completely randomly generated stuff that may or may not be good and is definitely horribly confusing," and "artifacts that cost me twelve thousand lizardmen's loot." While a player is too new to parse the randomly generated stuff, they're likely to be grateful for the Bright Red Sword That's Obviously Cooler Than Newbie Gear.

Or at least that's what *I* think. I haven't been a newbie since Santa invaded Britain, so I could be wildly wrong.


E. Jeremy Dalberg
UO Community Coordinator

[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]


#3
Tabbitha

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maybe im not the guy that should be commenting on the high cost of items. having only played a short time there is probably much more for me to learn about rather than focusing on pvpng at the brit gate.

im proud of what i have achieved in the short time in game. i have almost fully developed 5 characters and have gotten a full set of the aniversary armour.

i joined a guild with a group of guys that have taken me under there wing and offered me advise and some gear so i can better compete. have done spawns and gotten some items i've been able to put on luna vendors and raised some cash, however not enough to yet afford a full artie mage's outfit needed to compete in pvp. but i have been able to upgrade myself with some armour and a scroll here and there.

So I will take a step back from the arms race, work best i can to raise dough to get the better items (if im not lucky enough to have them fall into my pack) and see where this game takes me a year from now.

point is to just have fun in this virtual world i find myself now addicted to.

but if you could let the df in mag drop uncursed arties i would be greatlyappreciative.


~~~~


Great attitude! * Salutes *


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For what it's worth I find it likely that you're right.

I brought a noob into the the game a couple of years ago. To this day his default weapon is a Righteous Anger he happens to have found the first time he did Swoop.

I have noticed more people using the Virtue Artifacts than I had originally suspected would. My guess is they are the "middle tier" of players that are active but don't post often if at all, and can't or don't wish to invest the time, effort, and in-game cash to get the uber stuff.

Your speculation, thus, may be valid for even the stage beyond immediately post-noob.


~~~~

[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]


#4
Nevaeh

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nice find, thx tab

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