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Auction style Vendor interface with shard search...

- - - - - auction interface search shard style vendor

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37 replies to this topic

#1
UOGuy...

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Who here thinks a Player vendor interface with shard search would be cool?...

As a shopper, a shard search would be cool... to search for all the sales offerings of a particular item on my shard, not x-sharding... with vendor location...

As a vendor owner, I would like to see what my compeditors are doing and to auction to the highest bidder on occations, for rare items... at the very least do a simple "price check"...

The interface could be accessed from any player vendor anywhere in the world... and of course you would still need to go and purchase the item off the vendor, cuz they ain't going to deliver... but the interface could have a recall gem...

So what do you say, I'm all for it... :)

#2
merth

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I selected we should talk more because I think on one hand its a good idea for the player looking for a deal and especially the new player with not alot of cash on hand, however as a dealer/seller I think it would be devastating with the undercutting and such. It would simply drive prices too low imo. Also I'm not exactly sure the kind of impact it would have on the economy. SearchUO already has this feature set up for Luna but I believe it requires one of their characters to actually run thru the area in order to update so I dont believe it would be feasible to do it across an entire shard. I might be way off base here but its my 2 cents worth! :)

#3
DiP

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The person screaming "Nay, that's horrible!" is me.

Reason: It's Horrible. It would be almost exactly like WoW's Auction House (which is great!!!! only for WoW).

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Thanks again Maddux!

Adri: women don't discuss men while in the bathroom, we sacrifice small animals and smoke tampons *rolls eyes*


Adam: aye and in order to expedite the production of solidiers, i kill off the old people (Carp was right, Adam IS evil!)

#4
Adam

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I think it's a good idea, personally, especially if you could filter out the stuff you don't want
Like, you could search for specific items by intensity (XX% LRC etc)

#5
UOGuy...

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I selected we should talk more because I think on one hand its a good idea for the player looking for a deal and especially the new player with not alot of cash on hand, however as a dealer/seller I think it would be devastating with the undercutting and such. It would simply drive prices too low imo. Also I'm not exactly sure the kind of impact it would have on the economy. SearchUO already has this feature set up for Luna but I believe it requires one of their characters to actually run thru the area in order to update so I dont believe it would be feasible to do it across an entire shard. I might be way off base here but its my 2 cents worth! :)


Dude, most of what you are concerned with, is "market forces"... and the "market" can be learned... and it realy has a will of its own, that can't be controlled...

Of course, Buyers want the lowest price possible, duh... hehe, would you buy something for 250k if you KNEW about another vendor selling it for 125k? This is just a "given fact" about a market place... The thing that you don't understand is, on High demand items, Buyers are willing to pay throught the nose for them....

My example is of two offerings for sale, and since you mentioned "under cutting", you must be familar with WoW... Now if there was only two ppl selling this item, you would have no way of knowing it... Therefor you would NOT be able to realize, its a pretty rare item...

Its kinda foolish IMO, to undercut a rare item... When I see this on WoW, and I'm one of the guys selling... Well, I just buy the other guys and relist it at a 50% profit... I think the guy walked away a happy camper and never realized I did it... and if they cry about it, well I'm sorry they were foolish... They should have learned "the market" before jumping in and guessing... Well, gee what should I sell this for? Whats it worth? Price check please?

Man, thats like taking a rare coin to a coin shop and asking "what its worth?" Sure the guys going to give you $100.00 for a penny... if its rare... If your foolish enough to take only one apprasel before you sell, God help you... Don't take it personel, when the guy turns around and auctions it for 50,000 US$...

As far as "undercutting", thats also a "market force" you can't control... First of all, unless you can do a search of all the offerings available at a given time (cuz the market changes with each sell/buy transaction), you don't know how many others are trying to sell the same thing as you.... The "market" can't help but become sacherated with hundreds of offerings of the samething and of course the price is going to fall... Because what you are trying to sell for a high price, is not such a rare item, therefor its common and NOT worth that much... Its another "market force" you can't controll... and you don't even know if it a high demand item ir not, just that theres alot of it for sale...

UOsearch is doing it now, for their own private benefit, using some 3rd party program, someone made.... to do a "Vendor look" and tally up a database, as you say they just walk around Lunu updating, but they don't go everywhere... Why should they? Luna is where all their own vendors are, why would they want more competition? Beside most items I've seen there have a US$ amount and a UO Gold amount for purchasing (heck they sell the gold too)...

An In-game search engine, I feel would be of great benefit to both Buyers & Sellers... Who play this game and NOT run off site Retail stores...

#6
Solidchrome

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I hate shopping round so this would be good :)

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#7
UOGuy...

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I think it's a good idea, personally, especially if you could filter out the stuff you don't want
Like, you could search for specific items by intensity (XX% LRC etc)


Exactly... Search by item and see all offering on a shard of that same item... from High to low or low to high price... If you want a pair of Barded Leather pants with LRC & Luck you should be able to do that... or do a general Barbed Leather Pants search...

With all the Random loot & properties being generated, it would be nice to see all vendor stock in a listed form...

#8
Baldguy

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The problem with "market forces' in uo is cost to produce. In a real economy, there is a cost to produce that sets a threshold. Only by relocating the manufacturing process to a lower labor market can that threshold be lowered. Since the company must ALSO make a profit, this sets a price barrier.

Now with UO, there is no threshold on goods found in game. Produced goods have them, but by FAR the largest market is in rares, artifacts, and power scrolls. With that in mind, realize that people with no scruples, or incentive to make a profit, will and DO put prices at an unsustainable low. If they have a large enough supply, the result is artificial deflation of worth.

P.S> you can do this with UO STuff already for Luna (now the major commerce center on most shards). If you contact the UO Stuff owner, they sometimes add other vendors as well (especially if near a moongate).

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#9
DiP

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Am I the only one that sees that this would be horrible FOR UO?

Most other games, sure, go ahead.

UO, for all purposes, should NEVER have anything like this.

UOGuy barely touched on the reason why.

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Thanks again Maddux!

Adri: women don't discuss men while in the bathroom, we sacrifice small animals and smoke tampons *rolls eyes*


Adam: aye and in order to expedite the production of solidiers, i kill off the old people (Carp was right, Adam IS evil!)

#10
Adam

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I'm just lazy and hate searching for stuff all over Brittannia.

#11
DiP

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I'm just lazy and hate searching for stuff all over Brittannia.


Then hire someone to shop for you :P

Posted Image

Thanks again Maddux!

Adri: women don't discuss men while in the bathroom, we sacrifice small animals and smoke tampons *rolls eyes*


Adam: aye and in order to expedite the production of solidiers, i kill off the old people (Carp was right, Adam IS evil!)

#12
UOGuy...

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The problem with "market forces' in uo is cost to produce. In a real economy, there is a cost to produce that sets a threshold. Only by relocating the manufacturing process to a lower labor market can that threshold be lowered. Since the company must ALSO make a profit, this sets a price barrier.

Now with UO, there is no threshold on goods found in game. Produced goods have them, but by FAR the largest market is in rares, artifacts, and power scrolls. With that in mind, realize that people with no scruples, or incentive to make a profit, will and DO put prices at an unsustainable low. If they have a large enough supply, the result is artificial deflation of worth.

P.S> you can do this with UO STuff already for Luna (now the major commerce center on most shards). If you contact the UO Stuff owner, they sometimes add other vendors as well (especially if near a moongate).


Dude, this IS a nice theorey... But its highly unlikely that any saine person would goto the trouble of "Monopolizing" a given product just to undercut themselves by selling LOW...

Quit the opposite would happen, believe me... Pricing would be maintained at an all time high just for spite, plus 10%.... Thats why there are Laws Governing such unscrupulouse acts of criminal behavior, in rl... The small independents would be shut out by the large Corps, due in large by lack of competition... All in all, they ARE the sellers... If they choose, they can NOT sell and just hang back to see "How bad you realy want it"... How high will your pleading(offer) go?.. Its called an "Auction"...or maybe a "little hint" they realy want cold hard US$...

hehe, you mentioned UO Stuff, hehe... Well, guess what? UOStuff is a conglomerate of "UOStuff, UOTreasures, UOResources and UOsearch is their attempt at "Monopolizing" all of UOs items for cash sales or optionaly, UO Gold, all the while maitaining their diversity as independent retailers... They are trying to Centralize ALL commerce to Luna ONLY, their territory, effectavely shutting out any competition because its SO hard to physicly look into each and every player vendor through out the rest of the world, in a timely manner... and this is by "design"...

Dude, "cost of Production" is much differant in UO because its limited... There are only so many ways to aquire an item for re-sale, the basic being Loot drops, Crafting with tools/materials or Buying with Gold...

Every retailer is responsible for calculating their own cost facters... and the only way in UO to lower your "cost of Production" is to do it yourself... Gather your own material, do BoDs for Tools and Praye you win the Lottery, Hunt High end mods and Praye you win the Lottery...

If the producers of UO would introduce an in-game vendor search, it would only show their support of "In-game free Enterprize"... and NOT centralized Outside Cash(US$) sales... JMO...

#13
DiP

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Thus furthering the horrible trend you see in UO today.

If you believe this wouldn't have an adverse effect on the game then you either look to profit (RL $$$) from UO or need to pull the wool from your eyes.

UO needs to get away from things that will make things easier for people to make RL money from playing, else things will get worse.

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Thanks again Maddux!

Adri: women don't discuss men while in the bathroom, we sacrifice small animals and smoke tampons *rolls eyes*


Adam: aye and in order to expedite the production of solidiers, i kill off the old people (Carp was right, Adam IS evil!)

#14
kingtony

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has it's good and bad points would like to see it implemented but if it done right
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#15
merth

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UOGuy you seem to have a very firm grasp on marketing strategies and effects, however your rational is backwards from reality IMO! Let me give you a for instance, I log in and see a group of friends going to a champ spawn. We manage to finish the spawn unraided (hmmmph highly unlikely!) anyways for my participation Im awarded a 120 magery scroll. Finally a highly coveted item I can sell and make some decent cash on. I put on my vendor and see 6 others for sale all listed by the same person (obviously a champ farming guild) and all at the same price. So I stick my ps up and undercut his price by 10gp (why go less with recall option it wont cost a potential buyer anything to come get it and he saves 10gp). Do you really believe that other guys is gonna keep his 6 priced higher than mine. He will have all 6 of them lower than mine in a shake! My only option becomes to either wait it out and hope his 6 sell before he can restock or price even lower. The negative impact here is it becomes a war in which we both keep pricing lower until he just buys mine and adds to his stack and shoots the price back up or I have to wait and hope he runs out (highly unlikely as he already has 6). with the way the system is now I can set a fair price drop off a couple runes and sell that same day or even spam sell it at a bank! With the scripting duping the way it is highly coveted "rare" items arent exactly rare anymore but still carry a hefty price! Why should the "little guy" not be able to make a decent profit for a decent item? Why should he constantly be underpriced by the "farming, cheating, scripting,duping, whatever vendor". The reality is these unscrupulous players are going to win everytime as they dont care about the "costs involved". They have no time invested and no costs so they can always win the war! Supply and demand is going to win for the player everytime but the merchant will lose.

#16
DiP

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That could be how it goes Merth, but UOGuy said it earlier where he said something along the lines of "buying out" the price cutters and just placing it at whatever price the big seller had it at in the first place thus knocking out the competition, bringing up their supply higher, and still making profit with YOU doing the work instead.

Simply as I stated before, this entire idea is horrible.

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Thanks again Maddux!

Adri: women don't discuss men while in the bathroom, we sacrifice small animals and smoke tampons *rolls eyes*


Adam: aye and in order to expedite the production of solidiers, i kill off the old people (Carp was right, Adam IS evil!)

#17
UOGuy...

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Thus furthering the horrible trend you see in UO today.

If you believe this wouldn't have an adverse effect on the game then you either look to profit (RL $$$) from UO or need to pull the wool from your eyes.

UO needs to get away from things that will make things easier for people to make RL money from playing, else things will get worse.


Dude, on the contrarey... I believe it will revolutionize UO commerce for evermore... Changing it into a true competative marketplace, through advertisement...

After all, what is a search engine for? To advertise things for sale and to allow the "Buyers" to brouse your wares freely & comfortably...

The problem with Selling in UO, is there is realy no way to advertise your items other than place the items on your vendor (my est 1500-2500 vendors on a shard), which is one in many.... and Hope someone buys from you...

or you can stand at the Bank and spam everyone, handing out runes...

or just drop runes at a moongate (I gota be honest with you, I pick them all up and resell the to an NPC)....

and the Problems for a Buyer in UO, is you gota search all those 1500-2500 vendors, by hand... clicking, clicking, clicking.... I guess outa frustration you can always buy the 1st one you see, for whatever outrageous price....

UOGuy you seem to have a very firm grasp on marketing strategies and effects, however your rational is backwards from reality IMO! Let me give you a for instance, I log in and see a group of friends going to a champ spawn. We manage to finish the spawn unraided (hmmmph highly unlikely!) anyways for my participation Im awarded a 120 magery scroll. Finally a highly coveted item I can sell and make some decent cash on. I put on my vendor and see 6 others for sale all listed by the same person (obviously a champ farming guild) and all at the same price. So I stick my ps up and undercut his price by 10gp (why go less with recall option it wont cost a potential buyer anything to come get it and he saves 10gp). Do you really believe that other guys is gonna keep his 6 priced higher than mine. He will have all 6 of them lower than mine in a shake! My only option becomes to either wait it out and hope his 6 sell before he can restock or price even lower. The negative impact here is it becomes a war in which we both keep pricing lower until he just buys mine and adds to his stack and shoots the price back up or I have to wait and hope he runs out (highly unlikely as he already has 6). with the way the system is now I can set a fair price drop off a couple runes and sell that same day or even spam sell it at a bank! With the scripting duping the way it is highly coveted "rare" items arent exactly rare anymore but still carry a hefty price! Why should the "little guy" not be able to make a decent profit for a decent item? Why should he constantly be underpriced by the "farming, cheating, scripting,duping, whatever vendor". The reality is these unscrupulous players are going to win everytime as they dont care about the "costs involved". They have no time invested and no costs so they can always win the war! Supply and demand is going to win for the player everytime but the merchant will lose.


Merth, Dude, its a nice theory... and only with heavy competition do I see this happen on WoW...

If there is heavy competition, that only means there are "alota guys" out there trying to sell the same item, at the same point in time... In WoW the sales ads are only allowed to run 24hrs max (or shorter, if the seller choses)... So, all the sellers have a chance to relist their items, while the other guys ads are still running and they were the ones undercutting you in the 1st place...

Merth, in your senerio there are only 2 sellers, you and the other guy... and he has 6ea, you have 1ea for a total of 7 items... and he has 6 of those 7... So what make you think he even cares how much you undercut him by? Do you think all 7 items will be sold today, now? Do you even think he knows that you have one for sale? How long do you think it will take to sell all 7?...

Now, in order to know all the information in these senerios, I gota ask, How many vendors did you search before coming across one with 6 120 Magery PSs? Didn't it take all day? Do you know for a fact, this guy has even sold 1ea at the price he's offering? The trueth of the matter, is you have no idea if those 6 have been sitting month after month gathering dust or actuelly selling... making the guy millions...

Same goes for him, he had to search everywhere just to find your vendor to see you undercut him... Now, your saying he's going to run right home and lower all 6 of his items, undercutting you...

and your going to immediatly know this and your going to run right home and undercut him... Right, is that what your going to do?

The Point you both missed, was while you were undercutting each other competeting, niether one of you sold any... So, maybe theres no Buyers around now... or maybe theres no market for that product anymore... Just because its a 120 magery PS doesn't mean anyone is looking for that item... or on the other hand maybe there are 10 ppl looking and all were sold overnight (in this case price is no option, undercutting only reduced your own profits).... If this were true, how come you found 6 on one vendor?

A surplus only means a weak market, I don't care about "How rare" it is... If no one is buying, makes no differance what it is...

Merth, you make it sound sooo easy to sell something... Just drop a few runes by a moongate or spam the Bank and you sell the item in minutes... You didn't tell us How low your "Fair" price was either... or did you find some sucker?... and charge him double... Bartering face to face is an art... Most ppl in games don't want to wasted the time, just give them a buy price, they don't want to haggle...

I bet you sold it for less than the other guy...

This is exactly why UO needs an auction/vendor search, so all this can stimulate "free enterprise" in UO... The In-game economy would benefit and not the outside sales for US$... It would allow the little guy to compete with the big Corps...

#18
merth

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UOGuy my scenario was based on the what if there were a search system in place! :) And my original vote was Lets talk some more because I'm neither for or against I'm really just not sure if it would be a good idea or not. It would definitely make pricing and buying easier, but I'm just not sold on it being good for the economy of UO which already is outta whack!

#19
DiP

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If it ever got put in game, I'd reactivate my account to "work" UO, not "play".

The use of that type system in UO would revolutionize the RL $$$ making, not the UO Commerce.

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Thanks again Maddux!

Adri: women don't discuss men while in the bathroom, we sacrifice small animals and smoke tampons *rolls eyes*


Adam: aye and in order to expedite the production of solidiers, i kill off the old people (Carp was right, Adam IS evil!)

#20
UOGuy...

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UOGuy my scenario was based on the what if there were a search system in place! :) And my original vote was Lets talk some more because I'm neither for or against I'm really just not sure if it would be a good idea or not. It would definitely make pricing and buying easier, but I'm just not sold on it being good for the economy of UO which already is outta whack!


and thats what we are doing... Talking more...

Dude, this idea only bolsters "Competition"... and "Competition" is Good for any economy...

Why would it NOT be Good?

There ARE many other reasons "why" UOs Economy is Whacked out....

#1- NO consumables... Nothing wears out or is lost in any way shape or form... Crafters are penalized, so their tools wear out... Newbies are penalized, if they don't know about corpes/item decay... But once you get an Arty set or an Uber Armor set... Thats it, you "Buy" nothing else....So the Economy comes to a stop...

#2- Unlimited supply of Gold... in Huge amounts at High end spawns... On top of any Rare items recieved...

#3- Mega Rarity based Item system...

IMO, other games have solved these problems in various ways... and have come up with Higher Memberships than UO will ever have because of it...





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