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Should they have updated the 2D client instead?

- - - - - 2d client updated

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95 replies to this topic

#21
Ziggy Stardust

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actually what EA should have invested in was a new server side code... no matter what client they build or update the same game play issues will be there as long as the existing 10 year old server code is used... EA has claimed and stated numerous times over the years that there is code in the server side that they dont know anything about, what it does and such... the server side code is the part that produces sudden bugs when something not even related is patched or updated.. the most recent is the large fountain deed deal... nothing was changed with it in the patch that caused the bug ....

#22
Snowy

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I voted Yes.

I cannot open KR with my characters without wanting to cry. I agree that some of the new art is very nice... most is not. Call me 'petty' but my base feelings are the response I get when I look at my collection of rare sandals.. beautiful black ones... silver grey ones.. red ones.. all look like 'flip flops' now.... and that's just ONE of the things that gets to me.

My opinion echoes these two:

Voted "other".

KR could have been good if only they did three things:
-Designed better graphics and artwork that is consistent with 2D artwork (i.e. monsters, etc look the same in KR and 2D).
-Realize that "UI Standardization" is synonymous with generic RPGs and work on actual improvements to the way we play instead of assuming there's only one good UI in the entire universe.
-Not released it in its pathetic state.

Actually, if they did these things you may as well say they upgraded the 2D client, but unfortunately that is not the case.


actually what EA should have invested in was a new server side code... no matter what client they build or update the same game play issues will be there as long as the existing 10 year old server code is used... EA has claimed and stated numerous times over the years that there is code in the server side that they dont know anything about, what it does and such... the server side code is the part that produces sudden bugs when something not even related is patched or updated.. the most recent is the large fountain deed deal... nothing was changed with it in the patch that caused the bug ....


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#23
DarksieD

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I don't understand why they want to tick people off by leaving 2d players out of new content like using gargoyle characters..it's like they are trying to force us to use KR :(
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#24
Snowy

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Exactly like that....

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#25
dhekke

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I think it's a great thing that SA was delayed, and they are willing to delay it more until KR sinks in.

This discussion wether KR or 2d is the best client is pointless...
We want UO to get better. We want content, we want events, we want the huge endless world, we don't want bugs, dupes or exploits. That is what we actually want.

the only mistake they made was announcing KR as done. KR is not done.
Aside from that, maybe it is a good thing... with people downloading and using KR, they will find and solve more bugs.
And when SA eventually comes, whenever it comes, if it brings the changes we all want, if it is a complete revamp on the way we play. Fixing the game to make it be how it used to be, will anyone care if the looks have changed? Hell no.


Make SA come with a HUGE list of NEEDED improvements, respecting what the game is supposed to be, instead of making it another "power-items-gathering" MMOG, lots of bug corrections, new WELL IMPLEMENTED systems.
Take a lot of time on SA, make it the expansion that solve the problems that have existed for 2, 5, or even 10 years. Do it right.
Find time to come up with a ruleset that gives us PvP, PvM and PK. This endless possibilities world is what UO is supposed to be.


I don't care how long it has to be delayed, as long as they're delaying it to get it right this time.
Because if they do, if the GAME is good, the looks won't matter at all.

We are Ultima Online


#26
RMS Carpathia

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It is hard to say, alot of people prefer that so called "pretty" graphics me it is content not looks... I love content

Heck right now I am playing Sega Genesis games Phantasy Star 4 (and if you look at my avatar that is a girl from Phantasy Star 2)

Been playing Lemmings all with bad graphics but just ALOT of fun to play!

UO is the same way, so what if the graphics are not "pretty" longs the game alot of fun that is what matters... but unfornatlly the "majority" doesn't think like that some rather graphics over content... graphics usually win =/

So I guess they should have totally made a new game but kept the play style on how it is in the original UO

Like Ultima Online 2 or something... even today standards that would be crappy graphics grrr >_< Can not please people really... pretty much got to do what you think is good at stick with it

Personally I love the original 2D UO graphics, they are unique and cute... easy on the graphics card practically all computers that people have now days can play it

There is games like Vanguard that is just nuts with graphics and alot of people can not play it... just to advanced in graphics... need a totally new computer practically or least for me.

So I voted "yes" they should have updated the 2D client instead ^_^

The new 3D client wouldn't have been so bad but I feel it was a little rushed, I guess they are trying to save UO? That or they did the graphics like that on purprose to make people repeal away?

I haven't played under the new client yet but I hear it is really laggy and not as good and some even say the original 3D client was better so... not sure...

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#27
kingtony

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i love 2d but i say lets concentrate on the future of uo and move forward
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#28
grizz

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For Pete's Sake.................Is there not a marketing department for this game.
Where is the damn advertising?
The average consumer doesn't even know this game exists. WoW is like a household word (or words, or acronym, whatever) you get my point. WTF is going on.
Get a damn TV spot. Take out a front cover for a poplular gaming magazine. Send free trials CD's to random addresses or put em in bins near the impulse buy stuff in Walmart.
Come on EA.............It's in the game. Is there that little confidence that this game will survive. Is KR a bugged piece of garbage on purpose. Will they throw their hands up in the months down the road and say, "well, we tried. The new client is completely worthless and due to the fact that we invested so much capital in this dying game, we are pulling the plug all together."
I'm probably way off the mark here, but I like to shoot from the hip. It makes for better replies. hehe.
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#29
Brom

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For Pete's Sake.................Is there not a marketing department for this game.
Where is the damn advertising?
The average consumer doesn't even know this game exists. WoW is like a household word (or words, or acronym, whatever) you get my point. WTF is going on.
Get a damn TV spot. Take out a front cover for a poplular gaming magazine. Send free trials CD's to random addresses or put em in bins near the impulse buy stuff in Walmart.


Aye! When was the last time anyone saw any kind of public advertising? And by public advertising I don't mean banner adds on stratics. I've seen more advertising done for PS2 games that flopped in the first month. UO has 10 years under its belt, spread the word for goodness sake!

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#30
Gwen Irima

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I voted yes for exactly the same reasons as this post:

voted yes because that is the UO that I want to play. I have been playing it since 2000 (right after Ren.)

An updated 2D would have been great.

I think we have turned down a road that leads to a dead end with KR.


I also started at exactly that time. If i had not liked how it is, why else would I have played non stop since then? I don't want a new client :( But... if it is gonna be forced upon me anyway... i guess i can get used to it (but i rather play the current 2d version)

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#31
tfarr

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Just to put my 2 cents in... here's what I view as "the path they should have taken, and possibly still can take."

Update the 2D client:
  • Implement optional new GUI elements such as the new toolbar and map
  • Allow any combination of old and new GUI elements

i.e. I can have the new map and toolbar, but still have my backpack look like a backpack.

  • Leave the graphics 2D, but make them higher rez
  • Allow the client to display at those resolutions
  • Enhance lighting and weather effects
  • Focus on content

I can't stress this one enough. The goal should be to build profession based quest chains that take you from apprentice to grandmaster and leave you feeling like you didn't have to grind.

  • Make the game even more accessible to players by building a Mac and Linux client
On that last one, some people might crinkle there noses in disgust at the thought, but right now... one of UO's strongest assets is that it's system requirements are low. Simply put, the game runs on just about anything. Well, why not expand that and make it run natively on Mac and Linux? You're only adding to your potential customer base. You're expanding the scope of what "anything" encompasses.

#32
Adam

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Agreed with Tfarr.
They should've spent the time updating the 2D client

#33
DiP

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I think that if you look at it perspectively, they really DID "update" the 2D client.

Face it, KR is NOT 3D. KR IS a new client, but it's still the same concept as 2D, but with new bells and whistles. The BIGGER, underlying factor here is, the code it's written in. Of course, the gamer doesn't care about the code though, it's not theirs to play with, they'll only care about what comes after it.

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#34
callumf

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I think that if you look at it perspectively, they really DID "update" the 2D client.

Face it, KR is NOT 3D. KR IS a new client, but it's still the same concept as 2D, but with new bells and whistles. The BIGGER, underlying factor here is, the code it's written in. Of course, the gamer doesn't care about the code though, it's not theirs to play with, they'll only care about what comes after it.


Yup - I been thinking the same all along but I felt like the boy who wanted to shout "The Emperor is naked!"

#35
Winfield

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I voted NO a while back.

I've been using UOKR almost exclusively now except for in-game meetings and some party-focused adventures, where the UOKR client still has some problems (no journals, party bars are a bit confusing).

In my game play, I do need fast, flexible ways to change clothing, change items, take screen shots, zoom in and out to see larger or smaller areas whether in conversation or running to or from the enemy.

I am now looking into the User-controlled UI settings (XML) to make things even easier and more tailored for my game play.

I upgraded graphics cards and ran testing on my systems, and all is running very well (no lag of UOKR compared to the legacy 2D client).

So I really think the use of 2D or UOKR is a matter of personal preference based on each person's game play, and the abilities of their computers. It's kind of like MS Windows 98 versus Windows XP. Windows 98 runs fine on low end machines and has basic features compared to Windows XP. While Windows XP uses newer program technologies (I think), but requires a better computer.

Or, a maybe it's like a comparison of Ultima VI versus Ultima VII (but this link mainly only shows the graphics changes, not really the UI or code improvements)



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#36
cadethepagan

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I havnt made a comment on here yet but I do believe they should have upgraded 2d just a bit. And by just a bit I mean sharpen up the 2d graphics. You will notice that 2d's graphics are just a rework of Ultima 8's. Notice that the avatar in Ultima 8 looks a lot like a player wearing a pack and plate helm. It looks like they compressed the pixels together and gave the game more shading.

I myself have reworked a lot of graphics for the Valve Half-Life engine and I must say it is incredibly easy to upgrade old art with tasty new eye candy.

However. I think 2d should have an overhaul but not by much. I would like to see KR finished but at a far later date. I think KR has potential and I believe they should not be marketing it unless it is in propper working condition. I myself have not played KR so I cannot talk that bad about it. From what I have seen it seems the graphics are a bit fuzzy. Basically from an art point of view I would have to say that the sprites and 3d or 2.5d animations were whipped up etremely fast and force fitted into the KR engine (which works a lot like the 2d so infact KR IMO is 2d with added models and environment textures)

I hope KR gets up to par as I believe it could save UO. As for 2d. EA would be smart and allow both clients to live side by side. Many game developers have had this problem. I don't like to talk about games outside of MMORPG but the Half-Life game did extremely well having a 98% score which was only tied with Sid Meier's Alpha Centauri. Half-Life 2 came out with great graphics and an uber engine. Problems that occured was although both games did well in their prime it seemed many of the older players stuck to the older game and were mad when new content was directed to the newer game. Of course the old Half-Life engine had its code and source revealed so the gaming public could control new content.

So there you have my speal. 2d is great and should have attention directed to it but I also feel KR has potential and should be equally worked with.

But to trade one for another will never work. Its been tried before with catastrophy.
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#37
Winfield

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I found this video by Crux Avensis on the Stratics UOKR forum about recent video clips. It shows basically side by side comparison of nearly the same video shots of 2D versus UOKR.

http://store.codecluster.de/kr2.avi

#38
GreywolfUK

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I think it's a great thing that SA was delayed, and they are willing to delay it more until KR sinks in.

This discussion wether KR or 2d is the best client is pointless...
We want UO to get better. We want content, we want events, we want the huge endless world, we don't want bugs, dupes or exploits. That is what we actually want.

the only mistake they made was announcing KR as done. KR is not done.
Aside from that, maybe it is a good thing... with people downloading and using KR, they will find and solve more bugs.
And when SA eventually comes, whenever it comes, if it brings the changes we all want, if it is a complete revamp on the way we play. Fixing the game to make it be how it used to be, will anyone care if the looks have changed? Hell no.


Make SA come with a HUGE list of NEEDED improvements, respecting what the game is supposed to be, instead of making it another "power-items-gathering" MMOG, lots of bug corrections, new WELL IMPLEMENTED systems.
Take a lot of time on SA, make it the expansion that solve the problems that have existed for 2, 5, or even 10 years. Do it right.
Find time to come up with a ruleset that gives us PvP, PvM and PK. This endless possibilities world is what UO is supposed to be.


I don't care how long it has to be delayed, as long as they're delaying it to get it right this time.
Because if they do, if the GAME is good, the looks won't matter at all.


Have to agree with this, the IMPORTANT thing is, WE HAVE UO to play, they could have just turned around and said to hell with the lot of you, don't like it, well lets see how you like it when we close all the servers down, and they have already stated they are look to import the 2d graphics etc into the UOKR client as a legacy option.

I am old school UO, I have played enough years to say that, and learned how to play in 2d, but I am realistic, for our world to continue we must change, if that means a new client so be it, but we should have 2d legacy, maybe not the full 2d client, but a legacy option in UOKR. At this moment in time I am about 60% 2d/40% UOKR

#39
Tovladian Soltyr

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I voted yes.

One thing I would like to point out are there are a good number of people who enjoy UO being 2D cause they suffer from seizures and the 2D is actually playable for them so it gives those who suffer a game to play. Cause all the bings and bangs and fansy bells and whistles of the 3D is way to active for those types of people. So my vote was mainly for them to have a game that they can enjoy. The reason I even bring it up is cause I have a few friends that suffer from the problem and if they take 2D out completely then my friend has to say goodbye to UO :/ and it will be true forced to leave thing instead of a "Omg someone pvp'd me and my orny got looted, I'm quiting" forced to leave type of situation.

I personally like 2D more for the history of the game, and all that good stuff. If they remove 2D they are taking away what made UO, UO. Not to mention KR still need A LOT!!! of work done to it b4 it's even playable and this is what they are trying to bring the new blood in with? shouldn't have they waited to try to pull the new blood into the game with the KR client, I don't know, mostly bug free, and Hmmm perhaps Completed? lol.

Anyway there are things I like about KR, I won't completely bash it but if I have a choice VIVA LA 2D!!!!!!!
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#40
DiP

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.......The BIGGER, underlying factor here is, the code it's written in. Of course, the gamer doesn't care about the code though, it's not theirs to play with, they'll only care about what comes after it.


I wish I were either not too lazy, or knew how to find it with minimal effort, BUT it has been stated long long ago that the code that origionally made 2D (think about that for a second, UO is how old?? That's how old the code is. Now convert that to tech-years (1.5-2 Human years = a lifetime for technology) and imagine that info being passed on without a rosetta stone and probably little word of mouth) was so hard to understand and full of holes that it was extremely difficult to work with.

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Thanks again Maddux!

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