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Suggestion: Life after New Haven

- - - - - haven life suggestion

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18 replies to this topic

#1
kenoxit

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Hi all,

Right now I'm in a similar situation described in this thread.
I just "finished" with New Haven and was planning about starting "for real". Problem is where, what, how and why.

Having that freedom of choice is interesting... if you happen to know all the choices available to you.

The tour

So, well, what about a guided tour after New Haven?

Some kind of "new player quest" that guides you through some areas outside New Haven would be more than welcomed. Something like having to escort a Cartographer to chart those areas, letting the player to pause and resume the quest anytime he/she likes when they arrive to a significant zone. So the player can just explore the area, hunt there, raise skills or simply go on on his/her own dropping the quest.

A possible tour guide would be:
  • New Haven
    The Cartographer is waiting in the moongate, for example, starting the tour.
  • Big City
    Maybe Britain? Just a place outside New Haven that a new player can take as his/her new "hub" place.
  • Hunting Area or Dungeon.
    Some good place for a new player to hunt in, look for treasures, raising combat skills and, well, having some action. Probably finding a treasure or giving some kind of reward somewhere in this area.
That wouldn't be that much work from a developer POV, and would be flexible enough to drop it anytime but helpful enough to give you at least some very basic hints or what to do from now on.


Who am I? What's this place?

Right now the only sources for that kind of information are outside the game (internet) and the occasional vet or UO helper, that may or not be present when you play.

Apart from that, I find a huge lack of lore and character involvement in the game. So far it feels like a huge landscape with a sophisticated skill based character development with the purpose of... hack'n'slash? Hitting GM in all the skills? Hmm... that's not what I've been sold about UO all this years, TBH.

Not all the new players have played the Ultima series (I've played them almost all, but so long ago I just don't remember mostly anything). Neither they have to, TBH. UO should explain itself in game what is about.

Right now, for a new player UO is in danger to look void, lore-less, combat based and, well, with unnecessarily overcomplicated game mechanics. And, apart from the last bit, I really don't think that's exactly what UO is.

#2
Decardo Imier

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Apart from that, I find a huge lack of lore and character involvement in the game. So far it feels like a huge landscape with a sophisticated skill based character development with the purpose of... hack'n'slash? Hitting GM in all the skills? Hmm... that's not what I've been sold about UO all this years, TBH.


Right now, for a new player UO is in danger to look void, lore-less, combat based and, well, with unnecessarily overcomplicated game mechanics. And, apart from the last bit, I really don't think that's exactly what UO is.


I agree with what you mentiuoned above and i feel its up to the more experienced players to act in such a role as you show the newer members of the game the way around the GREAT community that UO has to offer.

They should bring back the volunteer programe but we all know that will never happen so it falls down to the vets and others to take an active role in this area.
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Life is the Dance and Honor, the Dance is Death to those we oppose,
Honor is our salvation.
Without Honor the Dance is meaningless
forms and we are nothing.


#3
DiP

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I agree with what you mentiuoned above and i feel its up to the more experienced players to act in such a role as you show the newer members of the game the way around the GREAT community that UO has to offer.

They should bring back the volunteer programe but we all know that will never happen so it falls down to the vets and others to take an active role in this area.


I agree, I never was around for the volunteer program, but I'd think that would be a better route than what was suggested by the OP.

Not that there is anything wrong with the suggestion Kenoxit, it's just that the game is so diverse that it would be a huge development for the team to make. The problem would come from the different styles of play that could not be expected/emulated by an NPC to the player and it could possibly make new players think that however the NPC mapped it out is how the game is when in reality it's actually much much more.

To start: you said "So far it feels like a huge landscape with a sophisticated skill based character development with the purpose of... hack'n'slash? Hitting GM in all the skills?" which is 66% true, it is huge and sophisticated but FAR from a hack'n'slash purpose. There are players *waves at Queen Mum* who haven't picked up a weapon in game since the first day they've played other than maybe to admire the work done on it/buy/trade/sell it/etc. I guess that's the "sophisticated" part of the game that I don't think a flat NPC would be able to show a new player.

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Thanks again Maddux!

Adri: women don't discuss men while in the bathroom, we sacrifice small animals and smoke tampons *rolls eyes*


Adam: aye and in order to expedite the production of solidiers, i kill off the old people (Carp was right, Adam IS evil!)

#4
kenoxit

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Not that there is anything wrong with the suggestion Kenoxit, it's just that the game is so diverse that it would be a huge development for the team to make. The problem would come from the different styles of play[...]


Well, I probably failed to express myself properly.
What I was thinking about was more like the escort quests already in game right now. Instead of looking for the local bard you'd look for, say, Britain. Where the quest giver would give you proper directions in how to go there in the quest description. Once you arrive, ding, you're done. The quest giver could say something like "Do your stuff here while I... <chart this area?>". After X minutes you can take, say, tour step #2, and head to the next area.

Maybe that's really complicated, tech wise. I don't know. I just feel it was an "easy" way to achieve it.

And for the limiting part of this kind of tour, well, what can I say. I think that's all about subjectivity. Newbie tours is something present in other games, I've used them and always found them helpful (boring or too slow sometimes too :)). And personally I've never have had the feeling that what was been shown/taught in the tour was the only thing disposable to me as a player. It was just a friendly push and a light chatter to feel a bit more confident and have a better scope of where was I and some things I could do. Like a veteran real player would do. And, honestly, I doubt that a new player guided by a vet thinks all he/she's is showing is the only thing around.

There are players *waves at Queen Mum* who haven't picked up a weapon in game since the first day they've played other than maybe to [...]


Yes, I know there's more to do than combat. The problem is how a new player gets that information from the start and how that option is presented to a non crafter (by template) player.

Anyway, being realistic, I guess crafting isn't what the average new player will seek first. It's probably adventure, discovering new places and the sense of being part of a unique fantasy world what is looked for at first. And that's where what I mentioned in the first post comes into play. The feeling right now is that you're left alone in a world that has no meaning to you as a new player. That's normal in all MMORPGs, but in this particular case it's an issue that hasn't been solved so far. The game, the NPCs, won't give you information to that respect. You're alone until you tie bonds with other experienced players, I guess. But relying only in other players to do the game's job is risky business, and probably asking too much to the vets.

I know about the game decisions / limitations that provoked this when the game was launched. But right now those decisions don't look that right and the technology limitations are inexistent.

#5
DiP

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Well, I probably failed to express myself properly.
What I was thinking about was more like the escort quests already in game right now. Instead of looking for the local bard you'd look for, say, Britain. Where the quest giver would give you proper directions in how to go there in the quest description. Once you arrive, ding, you're done. The quest giver could say something like "Do your stuff here while I... <chart this area?>". After X minutes you can take, say, tour step #2, and head to the next area.


Oh, haha, guess I looked into it too much. Just a tour of the areas and a tour alone (just to give direction on how to get to X city) isn't a bad suggestion at all and would be beneficial.

I guess I was just looking at it as you'd still be left in UO with nothing but what you (don't) know but in a different area.

The feeling right now is that you're left alone in a world that has no meaning to you as a new player.


I think that was the whole idea behind UO from the beginning. To not have "meaning" to the game itself, but for the player to create his/her own meaning in the game WITH him/herself. Kind of like The Sims Online, really has no meaning, but people play it to.... interact. UO is kind of the same way, except you can actually do stuff other than decorate a house/have your avatar hang out in a bar/etc.

Disclaimer: I could be entirely wrong, this is just my opinion.

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Thanks again Maddux!

Adri: women don't discuss men while in the bathroom, we sacrifice small animals and smoke tampons *rolls eyes*


Adam: aye and in order to expedite the production of solidiers, i kill off the old people (Carp was right, Adam IS evil!)

#6
JimmyPlot

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They should bring back the volunteer programe



Agree
Everything was so much better when there were helpers and counselors
who cared about the players.

#7
Vepl

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kenoxit thank you for bringing this up. It's been so long since some of us have been new that we have forgotten what it is like :-/ .

I do have a few questions. First one is did you take the new player tour (the one that takes you to different areas)? If you did, did the tour show you a moongate? Are you playing KR or the 2D client? If you took the tour and it didn't show you a moongate, do you feel it would of helped you in exploring the lands on your own? Since most moongates aren't in a city. Would you be confused when exiting one and finding yourself basically in the wilderness? No matter which client you have played how easy is the map for you to understand and find your way around?

Again thanks for all your input :)

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#8
kenoxit

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I do have a few questions. First one is did you take the new player tour (the one that takes you to different areas)? [...]


I'm afraid I'm lost now, Vepl.
Do you mean the one that takes you from the dock area to the town, teaching you the basics (moving, delivering a quest item and a bit of combat)?

Or there's another guided tour beyond that one which I'm not aware of?

#9
Vepl

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I believe it is right after you create a character and before leaving you in New Haven. The game takes you on a "mini" tour. You get transported to different areas with a short discourse on where you are at. I breezed through it shortly after they implemented it. So it has been awhile. I seem to remember that they take you to West Brit Bank (WBB) and the dungeon doom. Not sure where else they the tour went. That was the tour I was referring to.

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#10
Baldguy

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Have you suggested this via feedback? They really need to see this sort of stuff.

Useful links


[UO:F Common FAQ] [UO Guide] [Official UO Play Guide] [UO Feedback] [More Links, gathered by the Forum]
[B][SIZE="3"]Got a Question, or a great answer? PM me with it and I will post in the FAQ.

#11
kenoxit

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I believe it is right after you create a character and before leaving you in New Haven. The game takes you on a "mini" tour [...]


Hmm... then I've definitely missed something important. Haven't get that tour myself.

Thinking about it, may it be related to creating a character by template or custom? My "main" so far is a custom fencer/archer I created after my first one (a template paladin) which I dropped when I had all those problems with the installation. So maybe it's because of that. Because it's custom.

My experience so far has been the tutorial, some killing and skill gaining, then me deciding that "it was about time to leave New Haven". No NPC showed around for any kind of tour.

Have you suggested this via feedback? They really need to see this sort of stuff.


Idd, I've done that. In my feedback about "what to do after NH" that you suggested in the other thread I added the idea of the "tour" also. Not my POVs on the rest. But I guess that's what this forums are for :shrug:

#12
Vepl

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Kenoxit if you have time and would consider creating another character. See if you get that mini tour and if it is of any help on where you can go.

Really do appreciate all your input.

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#13
kenoxit

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No problem, Vepl, I created a new paladin (by template) when I first read about the tour you mentioned. I'm playing with him right now.

I'll post here when I get to that tour, for sure :)

#14
Vepl

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If you are playing him.. then the tour didn't happen :(

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#15
kenoxit

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Huh? Now I'm really puzzled.
I thought you meant "tour" while in game, making your player character move from one location to another, guided by a NPC or that sorceress like girl prompt in the initial tutorial.

You mean the tour you were talking about was somekind of slideshow without the player's interaction? Like an intro movie?

#16
Vepl

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That is probably it. Showed you several places one of them was in doom and the other that I seem to remember was a bank (thinking it was WBB).

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#17
DiP

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Isn't the new player tour done by The Wanderer?

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Thanks again Maddux!

Adri: women don't discuss men while in the bathroom, we sacrifice small animals and smoke tampons *rolls eyes*


Adam: aye and in order to expedite the production of solidiers, i kill off the old people (Carp was right, Adam IS evil!)

#18
kenoxit

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Then nope, haven't seen that with any of the characters I've started so far.
Maybe it's because I'm playing with the KR trial. Maybe they just left that out.

Well, I think I can reply to your previous questionary now:

First one is did you take the new player tour (the one that takes you to different areas)?


Nope.

If you did, did the tour show you a moongate?

Not applicable, but nope.

Are you playing KR or the 2D client?

KR. The 14 days trial.

If you took the tour and it didn't show you a moongate, do you feel it would of helped you in exploring the lands on your own? Since most moongates aren't in a city.

Well, it appeared in the map, so I was guided by that. Anyway, I already played Ultima games, so I was familiar with the meaning of that "Moongate" and its purpose. A new player that hasn't played any won't understand it until explained by another player or reading it somewhere out of the game. There's always the chance that he/she tries the moongate to experiment, but for that they should be impelled to travel to a remote spot in the island that no quest (AFAIK) leads you to. So it's complicated this way.

Personally, I consider the use of moongates an important part of the game, as the main mean of fast travel, and should be explained clearly and relatively soon to new players.

Would you be confused when exiting one and finding yourself basically in the wilderness?

Again, I played Ultima games, so it wasn't that kind of a shock. Anyway, I can imagine that for a new player could be a bit stressing and puzzling at first. Maybe placing it besides a road or creating new ones would help here. But I guess that there could be some lore stricting or preventing that that I'm not aware of. Whatever the reason, it's the "public transport" of Britannia, and used enough to justify adding some kind of road or, at least, a signpost showing the closest cities/towns around.

No matter which client you have played how easy is the map for you to understand and find your way around?

The map itself is good enough. A bit different from the usual thing (minimap and normal map are toggled by the same key, you can zoom in/out and scroll at pleasure, etc) but nothing dramatic.

My main problem with the minimap is the choice of icons and pins to represent your position in the map/minimap and the special locations. The colors are all pastel, exactly as the map itself, so you have a VERY hard time trying to spot those "suposedly especially marked for easy reading" locations. Particularly the violet ones that lead to your corpse or quest related. Why didn't they use primary colors for that? Or, at least, put some color borders with primary colors aorund those icons. Really, if a marker isn't clearly visible at first glance, it loses its purpose.


Hope that helps.

#19
DiP

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Maybe it's only available in 2D. I could be wrong.

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Thanks again Maddux!

Adri: women don't discuss men while in the bathroom, we sacrifice small animals and smoke tampons *rolls eyes*


Adam: aye and in order to expedite the production of solidiers, i kill off the old people (Carp was right, Adam IS evil!)





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