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Random resources Yay or Nay...

- - - - - nay random resources yay

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80 replies to this topic

#21
merth

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Doesnt really matter how spawn spots are triggered, scriptors will still script. it just means they will get more of the less valuable resources and not as many of the higher value. The main point here that seems to be missed is a scriptor is not really there! Who cares if they get less valorite for instance. They are not wasting their time..why because they are not sitting in front of their keyboard. The only one hurt by this is the casual miner who goes out to replenish his stock or the guy who needs to buy X# of a more valuable ingot in order to do his enhancing or make a wep or whatever and doesnt have a miner of his own. (prices going thru the roof). The true downside of this is now scriptors can drive prices thru the roof due to difficulty hence still making just as much money, the hardcore miner that makes a living off mining while actually playing his char has to work much much harder, and the guy that doesnt have a miner has to pay thru the nose for the more valuable ingots. Once again scriptors win, once again the fix is a bandaid which doesnt address the problem only heightens it and once again true players get more disheartened :(.

#22
UOGuy...

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I have been giving this some thought. Depending how it's implemented. It could be a good thing overall. The only downside if properly implemented would be to ore rune book vendors and the lazy infrequent miner.

Let me explain. As an example we have Scripter Miner, Serious Miner, Resource Miner, Casual Miner and Lazy Miner. Scripter Miner has his Valorite runebook of spots. All the other miners have a different runebook but each have some spots that overlap Scripters runebook.

Now EA creates a formula that if a certain spawn area is harvested "X +/- A" number of times in "Y +/- B" amount of time. The resource will respawn a new resource.

Well Scripter Miner starts his illegal program and sends his character off. Well it's not long and all his spots have changed ore type. Now he has to A: Find a new rune book with valorite spots or B: Go looking for valorite spots himself. Now my gut tells me he is to lazy to find his own so he will go looking.

What happens to the other miners? Not all that bad really. They are not likely to ever hit the criteria to force a resource change and unless they have the exact same runebook (highly unlikely). They will come along and find a spot that has changed. They will remove the rune to that spot and put it in a runebook for the correct color ore. They will then find a new spot to mark so they can still have a full runebook of valorite spots. The Lazy Miner will be hit the hardest because he does not want to find new spots so he will go looking for a new runebook. After time it is very likely he will end up with the same runebook that Scripter Miner buys. That is when Lazy Miner will scream about how EA ruined mining :-/ .

I believe Ore Runebook sales will plummet. The reason being is no one will want Scripter Miner to ruin there mining spots. It would ruin there credibility as a runebook seller and also would affect there miner (if they have one).

Of course this illustration was for mining but can be applied to any resource.

Will this change ruin resource gathering? IF implemented correctly I don't think so. I am going to wait and see how EA implements it before I vote.

Vepl


But thats NOT the way it is working...

I guess you didn't see "Warsong of LS" below... He has posted data showing just how rare Valorite is going to be... In the preasant day... like right now... Its Live... Its a done deal, we get no vote... again....

and the discussion has only started...

#23
Vepl

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Actually I did read Warsong of LS post. I am guessing though that he didn't have a rune book to just valorite spots. That he just stripped mine down the mountain. Well that is no different then it is now. There is a mountain behind my house on LS. I have only found one valorite spot. The test was nice but doesn't add to or take away from the discussion in this thread.

Vepl

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#24
abracadabra

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It has taken me days of chopping in the past to find a frostwood tree. Finding high grade ores isn't too bad, but for the frostwood, it's going to be a horrible bore/chore.
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#25
Vepl

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I was thinking that if Warsong of LS had tried chopping trees. He could of easly chopped 2000 times and never hit a frostwood or bloodwood even :-/

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#26
cadethepagan

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This is a tough one with bennys on both sides. Don't have a good enough coment for yah but all I can say is I trust EA.
Power is not given, it is taken!

#27
UOGuy...

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I was thinking that if Warsong of LS had tried chopping trees. He could of easly chopped 2000 times and never hit a frostwood or bloodwood even :-/

Vepl


Mmmm... I'm think'n the same thing here....

#28
Warsong of LS

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Actually I was on test center and did not have any runebooks marked out there.

I just mined like I did when I first started mining, many years ago, I stripped mined, made notes about the ore spots.

Then repeated the exact number of strikes at the same places.

Gonna try my marked runebooks on LS since its live now in a few hours, will post back.

Might try my lumberjack first though as I have/had 8 frostwood spots under the old way, gonna see what the change is.
Hope is the first step on the road to disappointment

#29
Vepl

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Well I look forward to hearing how it works out Warsong of LS. Have company coming over tonight so will not be able to check it out :-/ .

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#30
Deraj

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I would be in favor of this change, but I don't agree with the spirit in which this change is being made. If it was changed for scripters, then it's pointless. If one is going to make profound gameplay changes, then let it be done for the sake of improving or restoring gameplay, not to deter scripters, and that's all it will do, because scripters cannot be stopped.


EDIT! ------------------------------------------

"Why did you randomize resource spawn in this publish?"

This change is getting more debate right now than the PvP changes, so here's Wilki with the scoop:

"The resource change was made for several reasons, but mostly because of the obvious one: "Rare" resources aren’t very rare if you can recall to a runebook full of them and collect as many as you want on demand. Besides just not making a whole lot of sense, we felt that this would limit any future systems that might rely on certain resources being more rare than others.

That said, there seems to be a little confusion about what we actually changed in Pub46. We didn’t just do a one-time randomization of resource spots so that players have to create new runebooks of rare resource spawns; instead, as a resource is mined, it has a chance to respawn as something else when it restocks. The actual odds of finding a particular resource type has not been changed, with the exception of the 4 rarest wood types, which will now spawn much more frequently as follows:

Frostwood has increased from 0.1% to 1%

Bloodwood has increased from 0.2% to 2%

Heartwood has increased from 0.3% to 3%

Yew has increased from 1% to 5%

Some things that we’re considering for the future:

Making the rarer resources spawn more often in the more dangerous locations

Adding some chance to get better resources from lower end resource spots (perhaps based on skill)

Increasing the amount you can get from a resource spot for the rarer resources (for example, if you found a valorite spot, it’d give considerably more ore than an iron spot)"


I change my answer. Well done dev team on this outstanding change.
Still we loom in the mists as the ages roll away,
And we say of our folk, "they are here!"
That they built us and they died and you'll not be knowing why,
Save we stand on the bare plains of Wiltshire.

#31
noixiata

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I like change.. and especially the explanation for this one.
Voted yes.

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powerful, beautiful and without regret.."
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#32
Warsong of LS

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Okay going to post my lumberjacking finds:

Please feel free to repeat my experiment:

One gm lumberjack, Elf for higher chance of find colored woods,
Using my marked runebook which contains 5 Frostwood spots, 3 Heartwood spots, 3 Bloodwood spots. All spots were found and mark by me, I used no ones rune libraries. Spots are on several different facets. At each rune I stripped out all the available wood. I am a very causal resource gather, I used these for just making colored furniture for myself and any that left a note on my bulletin board with an order. Also I have harvested enough Frostwood from these 5 spots for 2 Blackthorns Kryss (was trying for a complete set of slayers), those are the only museum item I have ever gotten.

I completed 25 circuits using this runebook (On Friday 8/10 & Saturday 8/11)

Run 1: Frostwood Runes = 1 wood,1 yew, 3 frost
Heartwood Runes = 3 heartwood
Bloodwood Runes = 3 bloodwood

Run 2: Frostwood Runes = 2 wood, 1 oak, 2 Frost
Heartwood Runes = 3 heartwood
Bloodwood Runes = 3 bloodwood

Run 3: Frostwood Runes = 4 wood, 1 oak
Heartwood Runes = 1 heartwood, 1 ash, 1 oak
Bloodwood Runes = 1 wood, 2 bloodwood

Run 4: Frostwood Runes = 4 wood, 1 oak
Heartwood Runes = 1 heartwood, 1 ash, 1 oak
Bloodwood Runes = 1 wood, 2 bloodwood

Run 5: Frostwood Runes = 2 wood, 3 oak
Heartwood Runes = 1 heartwood, 1 ash, 1 oak
Bloodwood Runes = 1 wood, 2 bloodwood

Run 6: Frostwood Runes = 4 wood, 1 oak
Heartwood Runes = 1 heartwood, 1 ash, 1 oak
Bloodwood Runes = 1 wood, 2 bloodwood

Run 7: Frostwood Runes = 4 wood, 1 oak
Heartwood Runes = 1 heartwood, 2 oak
Bloodwood Runes = 1 wood, 2 bloodwood

Run 8: Frostwood Runes = 4 wood, 1 oak
Heartwood Runes = 1 heartwood, 2 oak
Bloodwood Runes = 1 wood, 2 bloodwood

Run 9: Frostwood Runes = 4 wood, 1 oak
Heartwood Runes = 1 heartwood, 2 oak
Bloodwood Runes = 1 wood, 2 bloodwood

Run 10: Frostwood Runes = 4 wood, 1 oak
Heartwood Runes = 1 heartwood, 2 oak
Bloodwood Runes = 1 wood, 2 bloodwood

Run 11: Frostwood Runes = 4 wood, 1 oak
Heartwood Runes = 1 heartwood, 2 oak
Bloodwood Runes = 1 wood, 2 bloodwood

Run 12: Frostwood Runes = 4 wood, 1 oak
Heartwood Runes = 1 heartwood, 2 oak
Bloodwood Runes = 1 wood, 2 bloodwood

Run 13: Frostwood Runes = 4 wood, 1 oak
Heartwood Runes = 1 heartwood, 2 oak
Bloodwood Runes = 1 wood, 2 bloodwood

Run 14: Frostwood Runes = 4 wood, 1 oak
Heartwood Runes = 1 heartwood, 2 oak
Bloodwood Runes = 1 wood, 2 bloodwood

Run 15: Frostwood Runes = 4 wood, 1 oak
Heartwood Runes = 1 heartwood, 2 oak
Bloodwood Runes = 1 wood, 2 bloodwood

Run 16: Frostwood Runes = 4 wood, 1 oak
Heartwood Runes = 1 heartwood, 2 oak
Bloodwood Runes = 1 wood, 2 bloodwood

Run 17: Frostwood Runes = 4 wood, 1 oak
Heartwood Runes = 1 heartwood, 2 oak
Bloodwood Runes = 1 wood, 2 bloodwood

Run 18: Frostwood Runes = 4 wood, 1 oak
Heartwood Runes = 1 heartwood, 2 oak
Bloodwood Runes = 1 wood, 2 bloodwood

Run 19: Frostwood Runes = 4 wood, 1 oak
Heartwood Runes = 1 heartwood, 2 oak
Bloodwood Runes = 1 wood, 2 bloodwood

Run 20: Frostwood Runes = 4 wood, 1 oak
Heartwood Runes = 1 heartwood, 2 oak
Bloodwood Runes = 1 wood, 2 bloodwood

Run 21: Frostwood Runes = 4 wood, 1 oak
Heartwood Runes = 1 heartwood, 2 oak
Bloodwood Runes = 1 wood, 2 bloodwood

Run 22: Frostwood Runes = 4 wood, 1 oak
Heartwood Runes = 1 heartwood, 2 oak
Bloodwood Runes = 1 wood, 2 bloodwood

Run 23: Frostwood Runes = 4 wood, 1 oak
Heartwood Runes = 1 heartwood, 2 oak
Bloodwood Runes = 1 wood, 2 bloodwood

Run 24: Frostwood Runes = 4 wood, 1 oak
Heartwood Runes = 1 heartwood, 2 oak
Bloodwood Runes = 1 wood, 2 bloodwood

Run 25: Frostwood Runes = 4 wood, 1 oak
Heartwood Runes = 1 heartwood, 2 oak
Bloodwood Runes = 1 wood, 2 bloodwood

Total Frostwood Logs pull out on this run: 260
1 piece of Amber

Okay very burnt out on the lumberjacking now. I will repeat this exact same circuit 25 times, over the weekdays to see if playing on off days/hours has any effect.

If this holds true, the causal crafter and resources gatherer is going to be hurting for sure. Price will most likely increase.

Although I am going to repeat my experiment before I finalize my theory, it does not look promising.
Hope is the first step on the road to disappointment

#33
Vepl

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Sadly to say EA wasn't after scripters with this change. It seems it is in preparation of things to come. We will all be spending to much time in the future looking for resource types. As Warsong of LS proved in his experiment. Looks like most of you where right about EA shooting the gatherer in the head with this change :(

Vepl

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#34
Warsong of LS

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I would not say I proved anything yet.

That was just my first run thorugh, Although I am burnt out on lumberjacking

Going to do another run of 25 this week same spots.

That will take my total to 50. I would like to get 100 times through each rune.
That should provide a sufficient sample size.

Once thats done, if I do not see any type of shift in the overall trend, then I will conclude that the causal gatherer is screwed. And you will be reduced to 3 choices:
1. Strip Lumberjack and cross your fingers
2. Purchase resources
3. Become a scripter

Although I would encourage others to run the same experiment to compare. Because the more data we can gather the sooner we can pin down what overall effect this will have on gameplay, other than speculation.
Hope is the first step on the road to disappointment

#35
Vepl

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Warsong of LS IF I read the FoF right. They are randomly respawning the high end resources. On your third run you ran out of frostwood. None of the other spots began spawning frostwood. It looks like they all went to lower wood types or stayed the same. Theoretically if they haven't planned for low level resources to respawn into high end resources in a short time all you will be able to find is base resources :-/

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#36
Warsong of LS

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That said, there seems to be a little confusion about what we actually changed in Pub46. We didn’t just do a one-time randomization of resource spots so that players have to create new runebooks of rare resource spawns; instead, as a resource is mined, it has a chance to respawn as something else when it restocks.

------------------------------------------------------------------------

This from the FoF

Though I read it that as the resource is completely removed it has a chance to respawn as another color, and yes I have noticed this. But as I continue to strip out that new color there should be the same chance that it respawns into Frostwood again or some other color other than the current spawn. If I hit one tree enough times theoretically I should be able to get each and every color over a period of time. How long that cycle is, I have no idea. Thats what I am testing.

If it turns out as you read it, then there is really no reason for the causal player to even try to find any resources, it would just be a crap shoot, hit frostwood by random, then after 2/3 more full loads it changes and never spawns forstwood again?

If that holds, then the causal player is totally screwed.

It would help if we had some other lumberjack run the same test. Just use the same 11 spots over and over and see what turns up.

What I do not like about this, is the fact that this change was posted ov uo.com on August 6th, updated to Origin shard on August 8th, then it went live to all shards with maintence updates on August 9th.

I do not recall there being any discussion about this change or why it was being implemented. And I try to read UO.com and stratics everyday to keep up with UO.

I understand that EAMythic can do whatever they please, its their game, but this is a very big change to the game. That should have been in place for several weeks on test center before going live.

But I guess this is what we get with having mostly Mythic personnel now running UO. I feel they (EAMythic) are more concerned with DAoC/Warhammer than with UO.
Hope is the first step on the road to disappointment

#37
abracadabra

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This same change was proposed and already coded by the dev team years ago, and shot down for good reason. Yet, they persist in alienating their honest customers and catering to the cheaters. Trying to keep optimistic at this point, but I feel i'm failing to keep the faith.
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#38
Adam

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One of the first things that springs to my mind is this.
The way resources spawn has been the same for nearly 10 years, but all of a sudden, they decide to change it....why?
This, in my opinion, is only going to hurt the average player or those who have no knowledge/intention of "scripting"
The only class of player it benefits, is the scriptors.

#39
Deraj

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The way resources spawn has been the same for nearly 10 years, but all of a sudden, they decide to change it....why?


As stated, the purpose is to make resources that are supposed to be rare, rarer. It was somewhat less and less common the farther down the timeline you go for people to mark mining spots, and these days it's becoming more and more common. And rare resources need to be just that: rare. It's one small step that paves the way for more reforms; reforms that the game badly needs. Of course, I'm speaking optimistically (enjoy it while it lasts).

So it rewards the scripters? Simple, don't buy from them. Get your own resouces, get a trusted seller; looking for donation rewards? Get them yourself. We complain about scripters but how many of them have directly benefited from us?
Still we loom in the mists as the ages roll away,
And we say of our folk, "they are here!"
That they built us and they died and you'll not be knowing why,
Save we stand on the bare plains of Wiltshire.

#40
Adam

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So it rewards the scripters? Simple, don't buy from them. Get your own resouces, get a trusted seller; looking for donation rewards? Get them yourself. We complain about scripters but how many of them have directly benefited from us?


Easier said then done
Just who are trustworthy sellers? Brokers?
Unfortunatly, there's no way to tell who's trustworthy and who isn't
If you buy from a leading broker, there's no telling whether he or she scripts, or whether they buy from scriptors





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