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Oriana · 9th February 2010, 05:16 PM

Lynk, on Stratics UHall, claims that it's not illegal to access someone else's UO account. I assume he is thinking of access without the account holder's permission although he doesn't say that. He says that the only illegality is the means by which a third party may gain access; that is, through some hack.

What he doesn't mention is that there are other means by which a third party can gain access to an account, without the use of hack programs. I won't go into this, but it is quite possible.

I'd like to know from an expert whether or not it is illegal in itself to access an account without the owners permission, regardless of how that access is obtained. It seems to me that we as account holders are essentially "renting" via a contract a service from EA for which we pay money. As signers of a contract, we surely ought to have some rights. Moreover, the accounts, as well as their contents, have a monetary value. If someone took without permission an automobile we rented, would this not be illegal?

Anyhow, perhaps a lawyer or someone with knowledge of Internet law could post on this topic.

Thanks in advance!

This is Lynk's post from Stratics UHall:

Today, 02:41 PM #54

Lynk

UO Content Editor

Join Date: May 2008
Location: THE GREAT STATE OF WISCONSIN
Posts: 3,826
My Mood:

Re: Insurance hack, just a baseless rumor ??
Quote:
Originally Posted by the 4th man

Players, hacking into someones account, an account paid for by a credit card, and across state lines, is serious gaga......whether you agree or not, I have an attorney in the family. This topic came up once.

Oh god another armchair lawyer who "knows someone who is a lawyer".

It isn't illegal to log into someones Ultima Online account. The illegal part has to do with how you obtained the account information. If I put a keylogger on your computer to get your account info the crime is gaining unauthorized access to your computer, not your ultima online account.

I need to go back to ignoring Uhall.

Valthonis · 9th February 2010, 06:25 PM

lol thats like a hacker saying its not illegal for them to get some ones bank account just couse they guessed the right code to get into the banks system. Its flat out unotherized access acrosed state lines. whitch makes it fedral crime.

Lord Target · 9th February 2010, 06:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oriana

Lynk, on Stratics UHall, claims that it's not illegal to access someone else's UO account. I assume he is thinking of access without the account holder's permission although he doesn't say that. He says that the only illegality is the means by which a third party may gain access; that is, through some hack.

What he doesn't mention is that there are other means by which a third party can gain access to an account, without the use of hack programs. I won't go into this, but it is quite possible.

I'd like to know from an expert whether or not it is illegal in itself to access an account without the owners permission, regardless of how that access is obtained. It seems to me that we as account holders are essentially "renting" via a contract a service from EA for which we pay money. As signers of a contract, we surely ought to have some rights. Moreover, the accounts, as well as their contents, have a monetary value. If someone took without permission an automobile we rented, would this not be illegal?

Anyhow, perhaps a lawyer or someone with knowledge of Internet law could post on this topic.

Thanks in advance!

This is Lynk's post from Stratics UHall:

Today, 02:41 PM #54

Lynk

UO Content Editor

Join Date: May 2008
Location: THE GREAT STATE OF WISCONSIN
Posts: 3,826
My Mood:

Re: Insurance hack, just a baseless rumor ??
Quote:
Originally Posted by the 4th man

Players, hacking into someones account, an account paid for by a credit card, and across state lines, is serious gaga......whether you agree or not, I have an attorney in the family. This topic came up once.

Oh god another armchair lawyer who "knows someone who is a lawyer".

It isn't illegal to log into someones Ultima Online account. The illegal part has to do with how you obtained the account information. If I put a keylogger on your computer to get your account info the crime is gaining unauthorized access to your computer, not your ultima online account.

I need to go back to ignoring Uhall.

Unauthorized access is one thing. If you 'own' the account [think EA ToS is a little iffy on this, since EA owns pretty much everything as far as in-game goes.] then it would be fine to file a police report.

However, lynk has a point- access plays a huge part of the liability portion.

If someone gets hacked via their webmail then IC3 can be involved.

I'd still report it to IC3 if they stole the UO account, but the whole ownership thing, ToS, and EA in general might just force this down the civil suit route.

Supposing not, the illicit access to the CC/billing/personal info might end up being something caught in the process; it would become a mess- and hard to figure out which party was to blame for exactly what.

Ownership of digital goods in a ToS that shows the company owning it, causes problems.

Big ones.

Computer Forensic techs hate the legal issues surrounding this; it would be much better if it were easier to prosecute people who accessed the accounts without authorization- but then you'd open up more cans of worms.

The problem is establishing ownership, and it causes even more problems elsewhere....especially when no illicit access is used.

Oriana · 9th February 2010, 11:30 PM

Wait, there's more.

Pitr, please change your password. "IeatLotsofTuna" is compromised. Your pal Lynk is about to hack your Gibson. His Stratics title, UO Content Editor, takes on a whole new meaning.

Today, 08:39 PM #66

Lynk

UO Content Editor

Join Date: May 2008
Location: THE GREAT STATE OF WISCONSIN
Posts: 3,828
My Mood:

Re: Insurance hack, just a baseless rumor ??
You don't understand, you don't own anything on your account. EA/Mythic owns it.

You'll never find anyone prosecute the 'hacker' for logging into your account. You can file a police report that someone hacked your email, computer, etc to obtain the information but thats it.

If I randomly type in a ForeignKitty as my username, and IeatLotsofTuna as my password, and it logs me into Pitr's account I'm going to loot everything that he has. I would then post screenshots of me doing it on several public forums, and I can guarantee you with 100% certainty that I will never so much as get a knock on my door or a phone call from any authority figure.

And people talking about 'accessing an account over state lines is a felony' need to stfu and stop quoting the movie Hackers. PROTEKT UR GIBSON BUDS!!!qONE!11

Valthonis · 10th February 2010, 07:07 AM

so stratics is full of hackers and duppers than. What he is missing is that where the property is in fact EA/Mystics than can report it as theft by onotherised taking but EA/Mystic just doesnt care couse they didnt lose anything.

**Corvak** · 10th February 2010, 07:24 AM

This problem is why my WoW account has an authenticator on it.

World of Warcraft and Paypal, as well as Final Fantasy XI use authenticators for added account security, and they are most definitely worth the cost (in some cases, they are free ipod apps).

Valthonis · 10th February 2010, 07:31 AM

Whats truely sad is those statments volate EA user agreement i think and def volate Stratics use agreement. but looks like they did nothing to him for it as this seems to be an on going post

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Access to an account without permission - an interesting question...