Hi all,

Let me start by explaining where I'm coming from. I have never roleplayed in UO but have in other MMORPGS and I have done the original roleplaying of D&D etc. Right thats a little bit of background out the way.

I am/was interested in starting a roleplaying character, I done some research on the various guilds on my shard (Europa) and looked at each of the websites and took some pointers on how RP seems to work on UO. Let's just say I was completly shocked. It seems that the RP in this game isn't RP at all. It's just a lot of people that like to say they RP (and by RP I mean they talk with an accent and emote expressions). Why are all the RP rules so (in need of a better word) stupid.

With the current set of RP rules there are so many variations of characters which can't be roleplayed succesfully of which most are evil characters.

You can roleplay a theif (maybe only stealing out of the yellow bag) but boy will some people moan. You can't roleplay assasins (which would be extremly fun) as stealth is redundant as you have to alert the person that you are about to attack that your about to attack.

By assasins I don't mean you just go out and attack any orange you can find I mean true roleplay as in one guild hires the assasins guild to perform a hit on a rival guild. Rumors spread on noticeboards in RP towns etc (this takes care of notification) so then the 'hit' knows whats going on and can maybe carry an engraved box as proof of the succesfull hit. That type of thing is fun to do and opens up the game.

There are a few guilds I spotted while looking round which I couldn't tell if they were RP guilds or not. Some things were bad character names, bad equiptment (neon robes, neon weapons and equiptment which doesn't suit their role). I'm not going to mention guild names etc but one of the guild I found which was meant to be a roleplaying guild had the complete incorrect karma for what they try to RP and armor which that style of character would not have access to. I won't get started on the amount of people with powerscrolls. You don't allow magic weapons but you allow powerscrolls .

I really think their needs to be a rethink of the RoE. Some of the rules on their are great, some need a rethink and are plain silly. The poisoning one is one that sticks in my head the most. This shouldn't be skills based, this should be background based. Characters with this style of play should be allowed to use it no matter what. Think of this in real life terms, I wouldn't know poison from pepsi (until after I drank it ) but I'm sure with enough money I could find someone who does.

A new RoE really does need drawing up. Let's open the game to all side's of RP.

I have never personally played on the Europa Shard or have been involved in their style of roleplaying (complete with their RoE and restrictions), but it is my understanding that these rules and regulations probably came about as a reaction to past abuses and issues that have probably sprung up over the years. These rules are certainly a strong inconvinience to creative roleplayers such as myself, but they are there to help that roleplaying community function and thrive. They obviously work, because Europa has come to be Ultima Onlines premiere roleplaying shard, and many other servers have modeled themselves in some ways on Europa's foundations.

Now, that is not to say that Europa's RP Rules & Regulations are necessarily perfect, or that I agree with them. I have roleplayed for years on Baja, and the roleplay that has traditionally occured on our shard would probably make the average Europa roleplayer balk. Ours is very freeform and open. It has allowed for a certain level of unbridled creativity and almost complete player freedom, but it can also lead to other issues that may inadventantly arise - and roleplaying on Baja hasn't exactly thrived because of those issues. There has never been a restriction on what items can and cannot be used in confrontations - pretty much anything goes. Just about any type of character can be created - from the lowly serf and the peasant to those who claim to be Lord British's son/daughter, half daemons/dragons, so on and so fourth.

My opinion would be to speak with the roleplaying community on your Shard - contact the (more or less) heads of the Europa Roleplaying Community at CoRE (Community of Roleplayers; Europa). Express your concerns in a respectful manner, and seek to come to some sort of compromise. I doubt they are out to ensure that you cannot play your character type - they just want to ensure that problems do not arise that could threaten their preffered type of roleplay.

If that does not work, then take a peek at some of the other shards. Catskills is considered the second to Europa in terms of roleplay. Siege Perilous, Lake Superior, and Chesapeke all seem to have small but thriving communities. On Baja, the Baja Roleplaying & Event Alliance is attempting to ressurect roleplaying there, while still maintaining the freeform style that has always suited the Baja Community.

* * *

Also, just to address a few others things you mentioned.

Itemization has always been a significant problem for Ultima Online, especially since the advent of Age of Shadows. We roleplayers attempt to form a look based on our needs, but sometimes are forced to throw something togeather to fit their needs. If not that, sometimes someone might actually develop a look that might be meant to represent something, even if it doesn't look absolutely perfect - you might see a Knight wearing an Obi or Leather Ninja Belt to represent a Sash or Belt. I have a certain character on Baja who I have attempted to model after a fantasy character I really like, but it doesn't look perfect and some of the pieces look absolutely mismatched (and look completely wrong in the KR client).

Also, while karma should be considered when roleplaying, it should be generally ignored in a roleplaying setting. You might have passing knowledge of a characters reputation, but their actual "alignment" is not sitting there, flashing like a neon light over their head. A generally honorable and chivalrous Knight might have negative karma rating for slaying someone who threatened innocents in Felucca. Perhaps an explanation might be that, although he had every intention of performing an action in the defense of the weak and helpless, his actions might have reflected a poor light on him, causing rumors and lies to be spread about him.

Sometimes you just have to toy with the game mechanics and the lore. Ultima Online provides an excellent medium for roleplay, but sometimes you have to play with it and ignore some of the flaws to make the experience enjoyable.

Thanks for the reply. I understand where you are coming from with regards to the equiptment and attaining a look which would suit your role but some of the characters I saw are beyond this. The one character I saw wore full plate armor which for the role they have put themself into would not be possible. If I explain it as a beggar in full plate armor it may explain it better.

I went to the CoRE website first of all which hasn't been updated since April 06 so I gathered that site was no longer in use which is why I started a post to see if the direct community could help. The RoE on the website is different to the one being used currently, if the one that is on the website was active and being used I could like that one. I will take your advice and try to speak to the community on my shard to see if this can be taken any further, I still would like people to leave their opinion though to how they feel about the current state of RP.

Dilvid

Probably a better place to start/ask debate is here:

http://www.uoforums.com/europa-rp-general-f1107/

Thats the Europa RP Forum for ooc discussions.

The ROE have been developed over years of negotiation and compromise and testing. They aren't perfect nor ever will be but the vasdt majority of warred guilds agree to their use - with a few exceptions and variations.

Take the debate over to Europa and you will get a lot more help and advice.

Ohhh.... Gnomy will love to help

Move the thread there please.


About poisoning, Since it is the most OP'd skill around for warriors and everyone and their lefthand got poisoning it was needed to change it to skillwise.. even tho many got poisoning as skill to be able to kill/defend themself.

Powerscrolls... yes id like so see a wipe of all powerscrolls.

Many of the rules you've mentioned are there to prevent greifing.. Which happens now and then.. Since as you know from other games surely that many want to destroy for RPer.. They think we suck.. They forget that many of us that RP now come from PvP.

You will see oxymorons out there, like poor fella with plate shiny armor.. But then.. you dont know his background? Talk to him to find out more..

The karma/Fame in game mechanics ...I ignore all that till i know the char Im talking too.. Make my own opinion.

I'll gladly help if you got questions.. If its a rant.. Then ill give you hell as only a Gnome can do


Thank you for playing Ultima Online....

Hey there,

If this thread can be moved to the Europa forum that would be great.

Thanks for the reply and I really understand the problems which can be had from taking out some of the RoE rules. I really don't want a rant, I think I would like to see true RP instead of half RP if you get me. I love the ideas that some of the people have come up with for their guilds but then they don't follow the agreed rules.

About the poisoning side of things, surely the RP mechanics will take care of it all. Evil characters use poison, evil RP characters are hated and avoided etc. If say the Lord of the Manor (good aligned character) uses poison in a duel (or simlair) then that is frowned upon and again that character looses out on some RP aspects. i.e People should now treat them differently dependent on how their persona reacts to the trickery used to winning the duel. Things like that are true RP. You currently don't allow the use of poison unless you can apply it yourself and have 70+ in the skill. The only thing that is stopping me from just going and buying a DP dagger is trust on both sides. This is all that is required again from allowing people with the correct backgrounds (evil aligned) using it without the skill.

The original rule set on the CoRE website which I am told the new ones are based upon allows alot more freedom and allows alot of these nice styles to be played. I think there surely should be a re-write of the RoE as currently is looks like it was wrote by one person (or many of the same type of person) that wanted all the best things for them/their style of play.

Sadly it aint that simple with poison.. Since so many char templates are now built to win...
But you are right that if a good guy uses poison he is frowned upon.. But there are so many... Semi good so to speak... they are a good with a hidden side of more evil.. / trader of illegal goods.. and yada yada...

poison is overpowered in the means, using a dagger with dp on.. you can hardly cure the DP and the target dies.. specially if you do lethalstrike and upgrade it one lvl more.. This results in everyone using it at any chance..

Sad but thats how it evolved... its all to win

The ROE here : **Announcement** New RoE - please read

Was designed/discussed by all the following guilds:

Tre – House of Tremere
Umb – Umbra
B^Y – Borough of Yew
-OH- - Order of Haven
RM – Royal Marksmen
VTC – Vesper Trading Company
LB – Britannia Guards
RoV – Renegades of Virtue
B^F – Brigands of the Fort
S-C- Spectral Court
DOT – Duchy of Trinsic
T^T – The Tribe
UD - Undead
SCT - Shadowcourt
A^K – Army of Kaldor
Srf - Serfs
Vlr - Valoria
CoR – CoRE utility Stone
Orc - Orc
KH – Knights Hospitaller
-V- - Vesper
E-V – Elven Guild
F^L - Floh'len d'Lloth



So it wasnt just one person or playstyle but many persons and players!

Sorry, that is a list of guilds which have agreed to follow the RoE not a list of those envolved in creating it. It still states v1.0 at the top of the RoE which means no amendments have been made from the original post. If I am incorrect though (which I don't mind being) then I would like to find a way forward and maybe arrange talking about adjustments to the RoE. Some of the things which were on the CoRE RoE are missing from the one which was posted and this takes a huge chunk out of the RP game for alot of people.

Dilvid - it is a list of those guilds who discussed and created it AND agreed to follow it.

Some guilds decided after discussion to NOT follow it - does that make sense now?

And it has been under discussion ever since its inception.

If you would liek to see changes to the ROE I suggest you contact your GM and use that method to see the ROE changed.

Cheers.