Niobe on the Lack of Dev Posts

Thradia · 11th October 2005, 11:18 PM

Niobe: Well, my keyboard could use a good cleaning but it's working decently.

You know, I really wish I could post a lot more. Often there's only time to read posts without having time to respond to even the ones I'd really love to respond to. 1/2 the time I won't even log onto the boards because I know this will happen.

Some people do like communicating on the boards more than others. Some people are really shy and posting on any message board is a daunting task. Others love to communicate but are busy with a particular project. Then there are people who work on the game, but because they aren't on the live team, they can't talk about what they happen to be working on and may not be as knowledgeable about the hot topic of the day (Yes, there are quite a few that stand out for everyone). If we spent 100% of our day posting, we still would not be able to keep up with the demand and not a lot would get done here.

That overly wordy paragraph is meant more to give you some different reasons why the team doesn't post as much as you may like. It isn't meant to be excuses.

Quite often, we're working on stuff but can't discuss it, or can't discuss much based on the current state the concept is at in development. Wilki has pointed out a bunch of the reasons why. What we do know when a topic is discussed:

1. Some people are going to hate it.
2. Some people are going to like it.
3. If you ask people to choose A or B, they will choose C and D.

That's ok! If we all liked exactly the same thing, our jobs would be much easier, eh? But it does make asking for input sometimes tricky. We try to include the community as much as possible (though the efforts often come across very subtle and people do not realize how much they've actually participated!) but there comes a point where we have to move forward and implement the concept based on a good balance of ideas and information from all parties - internal and external. When we miss big, you'll let us know loudly.

Thradia · 11th October 2005, 11:19 PM

I do have to say...it makes me giggle to know that people get so upset because the Devs are off working on the game instead of posting on the boards.

The thread about this on Stratics is 12 pages long already...hehe

Thradia · 11th October 2005, 11:21 PM

Wilki comments:

Ok, let me try this one more time...

Taking your major points, what you've said here is that you don't like UO as it is, you believe UO is heading in the wrong direction, you think there is no accountability to the customer, you don't like what I personally have to say, what we do say is labeled as "excuses", we don't care about exploiters, you believe there is little originality to new UO content, and you believe that we at EA believe you owe us something, and you expect us to produce a UO that is balanced and bug free.

I happen to disagree with your assessment of every single one of those points.

I know that UO is liked by most of our players, who login each day to play, who attend our Town Hall Meetups and show us how enthusiastic they are for the game, who form communities, run events, write stories, and so on... what you see on these forums is not an indication of the overall level of satisfaction of our entire player base, as people who have problems are far more likely to speak up. The people who are having fun and enjoying UO are not here on the forums, but actually in-game playing.

I believe that our current focus for UO - addressing PvP/Combat, fixing bugs and generally applying some polish to an already good game, along with several things we haven’t talked about publicly yet, are the exact direction we should be headed in.

I believe that we are most definitely accountable to the players, as a whole. We craft UO, and you hold us accountable by choosing to keep playing or not.

I know for a fact that what I and my colleagues post here are not "excuses", but rather our thoughts/ideas/views/perceptions of whatever issue it is that we're addressing. It is very much true that the developers are busy developing and not posting here, as should be the norm when they’re not actively soliciting feedback. It is true that the tone of the forums has changed towards the negative, and I firmly believe that tone is set by a few very loud individuals who crowd out the opinions of everyone else. That makes it harder for us at EA to use these forums to better UO, and less likely that other players will feel like it is safe to post their own opinions. This isn’t just my perception, but is shared by many of my colleagues, and by many of the players who use these forums. It is very true that it takes time to craft a well thought out post, and that developers don't often have the time to do that when they have deadlines to meet and projects to finish. As for name calling, it doesn't belong here, regardless of who is doing it and who it is directed towards.

I know for a fact that we spend a considerable amount of time dealing with exploiters, both in taking action against them, as well as plugging up the holes that they are exploiting. It is a constant thorn in our side, and I know that to a person we very much care about the issue.

As for originality, I'll point to UOSE. That was a daring departure from the standard "swords and sorcery" nature of UO. Some players don't like it, many players do. I’ll point to the “incorrectness” of UO elves compared to “canon” elves found in most other fantasy games. I remember this being a hot topic when UOML was first announced, and that discussion wouldn’t have occurred if UO elves were elves from the traditional elven mold. Furthermore, I don’t believe originality stands on its own. I can point to a certain well-known, very successful MMO that hardly has anything original in its content... yet it is wildly successful. Why ignore a good thing just because it isn't new? That said, we've got something in the works that I think is quite original, and will be lots of fun.

Nowhere have I seen an EA employee tell a player that they owed us something, other than basic respect and common courtesy. Criticizing what we do is welcome, as that helps us make UO better; criticizing EA team members (or your fellow players) on a personal level is not.

Finally, there has never been, is not, and never will be an MMO that is perfectly balanced and bug free. Especially not one that is 8 years old. While it is our goal to strive for that level of perfection, it is unrealistic to expect that it will ever be achieved. Can we do a better job? Of course we can, and that's what we're trying to do each and every day.

Now, I’ve explained how and why I disagree with your assessment of UO. I’m not being condescending, nor do I believe I’m making excuses. That’s my honest response to the things that you’ve mentioned.

Now, I have a Town Hall announcement to polish up and get posted :-)

**Ezekiel** · 12th October 2005, 02:36 AM

Gotta love that Wilki! I just wish that theyd have a Town Hall a bit closer...Chicago is around 12-14 hour drive for me...

**Dra'ki Areese** · 12th October 2005, 06:06 AM

its about 24 hours from me... damn shame tho i love that city

Cassie · 12th October 2005, 06:31 AM

6 hour drive for me...*hmmm*...wonder if i could talk to hubby...gas prices though are still high.

Flutter · 12th October 2005, 06:59 AM

I am one of those people that would like more dev interaction.
It bugs me that she said "1/2 the time I won't even log onto the boards"
I would rather be heard and my concepts and ideas and feedback be directly discussed with those who are making changes.
Oh well.

Tukaram · 12th October 2005, 07:05 AM

I have to agree with Niobe. I've seen it on the boards too many times.

If the Devs are posting people ask why they are on the boards instead of fixing our horrible game.

If they are not posting then people (usually the same ones) complain that there is no Dev interaction.

It was the same on the old MyUO boards, just like Stratics. Some people are just never happy.

12th October 2005, 07:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flutter

I am one of those people that would like more dev interaction.
It bugs me that she said "1/2 the time I won't even log onto the boards"
I would rather be heard and my concepts and ideas and feedback be directly discussed with those who are making changes.
Oh well.

That was poorly worded on my part. I meant that I don't log into the boards with my Niobe handle when I'm reading them because I know I won't have time to respond to posts. It wasn't meant to say I don't read the boards 1/2 the time.

I normally take time to read the boards in the morning before work and after work. It's 6:50am right now and I'm checking the boards while drinking coffee. My work day is normally really busy, so I don't get nearly the time to read posts as I'd like during work hours. If you look at the times of my posts, they are usually during lunch or early morning/late evening.

Sorry for the confusion. (and probably more confusion with this post. I haven't finished drinking my first cup of coffee!)

**Adam** · 12th October 2005, 08:10 AM

Welcome Niobe! Great to have you with us.

Hope you enjoy your stay

11th October 2005, 11:18 PM	#1
Thradia licks Join Date: Apr 2004 Shard: Napa Valley Posts: 1,364 Gold: 186 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Niobe on the Lack of Dev Posts Niobe: Well, my keyboard could use a good cleaning but it's working decently. You know, I really wish I could post a lot more. Often there's only time to read posts without having time to respond to even the ones I'd really love to respond to. 1/2 the time I won't even log onto the boards because I know this will happen. Some people do like communicating on the boards more than others. Some people are really shy and posting on any message board is a daunting task. Others love to communicate but are busy with a particular project. Then there are people who work on the game, but because they aren't on the live team, they can't talk about what they happen to be working on and may not be as knowledgeable about the hot topic of the day (Yes, there are quite a few that stand out for everyone). If we spent 100% of our day posting, we still would not be able to keep up with the demand and not a lot would get done here. That overly wordy paragraph is meant more to give you some different reasons why the team doesn't post as much as you may like. It isn't meant to be excuses. Quite often, we're working on stuff but can't discuss it, or can't discuss much based on the current state the concept is at in development. Wilki has pointed out a bunch of the reasons why. What we do know when a topic is discussed: 1. Some people are going to hate it. 2. Some people are going to like it. 3. If you ask people to choose A or B, they will choose C and D. That's ok! If we all liked exactly the same thing, our jobs would be much easier, eh? But it does make asking for input sometimes tricky. We try to include the community as much as possible (though the efforts often come across very subtle and people do not realize how much they've actually participated!) but there comes a point where we have to move forward and implement the concept based on a good balance of ideas and information from all parties - internal and external. When we miss big, you'll let us know loudly.

11th October 2005, 11:19 PM	#2
Thradia licks Join Date: Apr 2004 Shard: Napa Valley Posts: 1,364 Gold: 186 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: Niobe on the Lack of Dev Posts I do have to say...it makes me giggle to know that people get so upset because the Devs are off working on the game instead of posting on the boards. The thread about this on Stratics is 12 pages long already...hehe

11th October 2005, 11:21 PM	#3
Thradia licks Join Date: Apr 2004 Shard: Napa Valley Posts: 1,364 Gold: 186 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: Niobe on the Lack of Dev Posts Wilki comments: Ok, let me try this one more time... Taking your major points, what you've said here is that you don't like UO as it is, you believe UO is heading in the wrong direction, you think there is no accountability to the customer, you don't like what I personally have to say, what we do say is labeled as "excuses", we don't care about exploiters, you believe there is little originality to new UO content, and you believe that we at EA believe you owe us something, and you expect us to produce a UO that is balanced and bug free. I happen to disagree with your assessment of every single one of those points. I know that UO is liked by most of our players, who login each day to play, who attend our Town Hall Meetups and show us how enthusiastic they are for the game, who form communities, run events, write stories, and so on... what you see on these forums is not an indication of the overall level of satisfaction of our entire player base, as people who have problems are far more likely to speak up. The people who are having fun and enjoying UO are not here on the forums, but actually in-game playing. I believe that our current focus for UO - addressing PvP/Combat, fixing bugs and generally applying some polish to an already good game, along with several things we haven’t talked about publicly yet, are the exact direction we should be headed in. I believe that we are most definitely accountable to the players, as a whole. We craft UO, and you hold us accountable by choosing to keep playing or not. I know for a fact that what I and my colleagues post here are not "excuses", but rather our thoughts/ideas/views/perceptions of whatever issue it is that we're addressing. It is very much true that the developers are busy developing and not posting here, as should be the norm when they’re not actively soliciting feedback. It is true that the tone of the forums has changed towards the negative, and I firmly believe that tone is set by a few very loud individuals who crowd out the opinions of everyone else. That makes it harder for us at EA to use these forums to better UO, and less likely that other players will feel like it is safe to post their own opinions. This isn’t just my perception, but is shared by many of my colleagues, and by many of the players who use these forums. It is very true that it takes time to craft a well thought out post, and that developers don't often have the time to do that when they have deadlines to meet and projects to finish. As for name calling, it doesn't belong here, regardless of who is doing it and who it is directed towards. I know for a fact that we spend a considerable amount of time dealing with exploiters, both in taking action against them, as well as plugging up the holes that they are exploiting. It is a constant thorn in our side, and I know that to a person we very much care about the issue. As for originality, I'll point to UOSE. That was a daring departure from the standard "swords and sorcery" nature of UO. Some players don't like it, many players do. I’ll point to the “incorrectness” of UO elves compared to “canon” elves found in most other fantasy games. I remember this being a hot topic when UOML was first announced, and that discussion wouldn’t have occurred if UO elves were elves from the traditional elven mold. Furthermore, I don’t believe originality stands on its own. I can point to a certain well-known, very successful MMO that hardly has anything original in its content... yet it is wildly successful. Why ignore a good thing just because it isn't new? That said, we've got something in the works that I think is quite original, and will be lots of fun. Nowhere have I seen an EA employee tell a player that they owed us something, other than basic respect and common courtesy. Criticizing what we do is welcome, as that helps us make UO better; criticizing EA team members (or your fellow players) on a personal level is not. Finally, there has never been, is not, and never will be an MMO that is perfectly balanced and bug free. Especially not one that is 8 years old. While it is our goal to strive for that level of perfection, it is unrealistic to expect that it will ever be achieved. Can we do a better job? Of course we can, and that's what we're trying to do each and every day. Now, I’ve explained how and why I disagree with your assessment of UO. I’m not being condescending, nor do I believe I’m making excuses. That’s my honest response to the things that you’ve mentioned. Now, I have a Town Hall announcement to polish up and get posted :-)

12th October 2005, 02:36 AM	#4
Ezekiel Wycorp--Dwarf Hunter Join Date: Jul 2005 Shard: Area 52 Posts: 2,504 Gold: 82 Thanks: 0 Thanked 8 Times in 6 Posts	Re: Niobe on the Lack of Dev Posts Gotta love that Wilki! I just wish that theyd have a Town Hall a bit closer...Chicago is around 12-14 hour drive for me...

12th October 2005, 06:06 AM	#5
Dra'ki Areese Slave to emptiness Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 338 Gold: 59 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: Niobe on the Lack of Dev Posts its about 24 hours from me... damn shame tho i love that city I've never figured out how to be gracefully humble without appearing weak. Nor have I figured out how to be gracefully passionate without appearing arrogant. In the end, I always seem to be arrogant and weak instead of humbly passionate.

12th October 2005, 06:31 AM	#6
Cassie I'm high on life, can't you tell? Join Date: May 2005 Shard: Drachenfels/LS Posts: 238 Gold: 1 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: Niobe on the Lack of Dev Posts 6 hour drive for me...hmmm...wonder if i could talk to hubby...gas prices though are still high.

12th October 2005, 07:05 AM	#8
Tukaram Old & grouchy Join Date: Apr 2004 Shard: Great Lakes Posts: 1,386 Gold: 70 Thanks: 0 Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts	Re: Niobe on the Lack of Dev Posts I have to agree with Niobe. I've seen it on the boards too many times. If the Devs are posting people ask why they are on the boards instead of fixing our horrible game. If they are not posting then people (usually the same ones) complain that there is no Dev interaction. It was the same on the old MyUO boards, just like Stratics. Some people are just never happy. Tuka Kinsmen are born. Friendship is a gift of the gods.

12th October 2005, 08:10 AM	#10
Adam Lead Administrator Owner Join Date: Oct 1990 Posts: 6,014 Gold: 66,477 Thanks: 49 Thanked 571 Times in 187 Posts	Re: Niobe on the Lack of Dev Posts Welcome Niobe! Great to have you with us. Hope you enjoy your stay Get your own personal forum Like these ones - Personal forum listing Bored @ work? Play in our arcade! Useful Tips on how to use UOForums Open your own blog

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