Heh no worries Snowy They're things which should have been addressed many years ago when folk didn't rely on 'em. Golems and shadow eles weren't put in game as training dummies, nor were satyrs or pixies. They were just "broken" but never fixed when players took advantage.

There should have been a better gain system in place, where normal gameplay was more fun for players. Say for example through quests with rewards of x amount skill points. That happens in Guildwars and gives you a lot of skill points without just straight PvM. Also making it so training in UO through nromal play gets faster gains. Even that you can get slightly more still through partying up. Encourage team play for training, but not to the point where solo pay is rubbish. I'm sure there are ways of tackling the problem where all sides are happy.

Wenchy

rofl @ "Having your swamp dragon pull a "Siegfried and Roy" on you and drag you off by your neck would kinda suck game play wise"

I don't train on my pets tho, and don't let them train on me. What I meant was like, for example, the other day I was down in the efreet room in fire, and had my cu guarding me. For some unknown reason, he decided I looked tasty. The darn thing chased me around the room a few laps until I was able to invis myself, and then it was all good. I still don't know why he decided to try and eat me, since I had cast no spells, and given no commands. I was just standing there waiting on the next spawn.

HOW many times i've been dismounted by a hiryu only to forget I was in war mode and then procede to smoke my llama on the spot...

Poor thing didn't even have a chance to Seigfried me

I am of the opinion that...i pay for my gametime so if i wanna train on a golem you can kiss my half canadian butt Luv yall!

I have always had more fun gaining skills by playing the game, takes longer but its more rewarding.

Some of us have jobs and friends and limited game time.

And this limited time is best spent sitting in one spot watching a toon whack a golem over and over again?

I have no desire to keep gains slow, or make them any slower - I just really dislike gimpy things like this where the player doesn't actually have to do anything. You just sit there and gain. Gaining through actual fighting has risk, takes some skill to not die in the process, AND is less passive and boring. And it's not hard either, at least not as hard as people make it out to be.

Now, if the golem (or other sparring partner) dealt damage just like a "real" opponent, that would be fine.

Training on the Golem isn't bad, but the amount of gains you recieve from a golem should be capped like a training dummy.

That actually sounds like a good idea Maddux. Make it so that if you do decide to train on a golem, you can only get to a certain level. I built my swds up to 120 fighting, not golem bashing. I tried golems on archery, but got WAYYYYYYYYYY too bored after like 10 min. So I went to the Ogre Lord island with a fast swinging shortbow, and worked up from about 75 to 110. I was able to work tactics, bushido, chiv, anat, heal and archery and gained a couple mil in the process. I also went to knight of sacrifice cause I got lord SOOOO many times. I am all for gaining the hard way. Although if someone wants to spend hours sitting there swinging away at a golem, so be it. Its not for me.

I always wonder when folk say they're short of time so use golems... if you're short of time you don't want to spend it staring at a golem It was because I was short of time that I just played UO for fun. I've never found gains terribly slow through normal gameplay, certainly not for a dexer. Same with my pets. The only big difference is said methods can be done unattended, risk free and with little thought of what to do when. I think those are the attractive factors, though I realise not everyone does it unattended

Wenchy

I still say there needs to be more content aimed at lower skill players, most ppl think the game has no point until you get to GM skills... Hence they find the quickest and most painless method to get there...

Maybe they should just make everyone GM in all skills to begin with. Used to be a GM skill meant something, now it seems to mean you have beat your golem for a long time.