I dunno. Anything thats crafte by a player should definitely be for either race. You figure the tailor would be able to make whatever they wanted...

If they were going to introdue other items that were race-specific, they should make the stats of the item reflect the race. This would either bridge the gap (for all you equality fanatics) or increase the gap between races.

I personally think it should increase. From every piece of Fantasy that I have ever read, if a human and a Dwarf go at it with clubs, the dwarf will come out on top every time, you know?

I can see the draw of make everything equal for PvPs sake, I really can, but when a human is beating an elf with a bow (mind you, both equipped with the same exact items), something isnt right.

Just my two pennines

BTW, Im catching up Thrad! 1k baby!

*brandishes badge*

Why can't humans have a pair of leather gloves as Stitcher's Mittens?

It would be fairly similar to the faction item crafting gump pop ups. Instead of picking what hue you'd like on the item it'd be the two graphics you have to chose between, when choosin say, leather gloves they'd recieve a 'Humans Only' tag. When chosing the leaf gloves, they'd recieve and 'Elves Only' tag.

I don't like that idea at all. Just make the property useable to all. As far as I can see, there is no difference in stature between elves and humans in game. If you are going to add that sort of penalty then make the elves smaller and thinner and perhaps add more variation to character appearance in general. Solution, let anyone use the stuff. I have never suffered a decrease in movement or speed when I wore clothes that were a little larger or a little smaller. This is not to say that I would be able to put on a size 5 shoe when I wear a 9, but are we going to be that specific in game?

Everyone wants to be able to use everything, and they can, just not with that character.

That's the way everything should be, even the UBWS should have some type of negative effect (like Magery - XX) to an extent.

CatHat's idea would be nice, as long as the penalties aren't too severe. Maybe take out the bonus of being X for wearing a Y related item. That might be too harsh for some people.

But something like that probly won't happen because UO is filled with people that want everything for the price of nothing.

There is no "price of nothing" going on here. The price we have paid goes beyond a simple matter of race specific clothing...that is cosmetic and the proposed solution is cosmetic. Have you ever tried on a pair of pants made in Japan, Mexico, or anywhere else? I assure you, you suffered no penalties...even if they were the opposite gender's pants. The introduction of the elf just brought more items into the game for players to figure out...why can't a human char use these items?

My point is, if there is going to be a penalty on humans wearing elf clothing, then there should be a reciprocal penalty for elf characters wearing human clothing....or equipment. Or, there should be no penalties or restrictions associated with it at all.

Sure there is, you just said it yourself.

They created elf only items, and since you have a human, he/she can't wear it. Plain and simple, but now you want your human to wear an elf only item. Simple solution, don't wear the item, or make your character an elf.

The UO crowd doesn't agree, so now they grumble and the UO dev team has to please the crowd, take time out from A, B, and C to work on D, then the UO crowd wonders why A, B, and C get pushed back.

Disclaimer: Don't bring RL into a VW.

Disclaimer #2: This isn't directed towards you specifically Traj, when I say "you" or "your" it's meant for any and all who feel that way.

i always thought it was silly elf only items can have nightsight...

The UO Dev team should appease the players...we pay for them to appease us. It is called a monthly fee...that is another price we pay...nothing in game is free. By making it eld only they force people to upgrade and then make take on this ridiculous quest to wear/use the additional items. Instead of focusing on actually improving the game they are adding more garbage to confuse the players. We have already decided that the game is too complicated for new users and even poses a challenge to seasoned verterans of the game. To continue to use these items as a way to force you to upgrade or not be able to use certain items or access certain areas is a slap in the face. Do I want to be able to access everything in the game...you damb well better believe I do. And nothing that has been presented in game has been free, and I am not upset with the performance of the Developers...the deeper issues I am talking about is the constant change and it never seems to truly fix any issues players have been wishing to have addressed. And of course, there are always those that will be appeased and those that will not, differing opinions just like the one we are having here in this thread. There should be no "Elf only" anything.

Then you probably want your male warriors to wear the Violet Courage too, right? If not, then "elf only" will apply. Hell, fencing weapons can be considered "swords" so I want to be able to use all fencing weapons with my 120 Swordsmanship skill. I can also swing a club the same way I do my sword, so let me use that too.

We do not pay a mothly fee to have the luxury of getting what we want, we pay a monthly fee for the content they provide.

Ok, ok, you got me, nothing is free, but like I said, the general UO crowd WANTS everything for free, once again, you said it...

No you are losing the context of the argument. It takes no skill to use a belt. You have to train to swing a sword. However, in the desire to keep arguing (fun isn't it?):

We pay a fee for service, not content. Content is a given. It is the customer who drives business, but in this case the business is more concerned with adding more content than fixing issues that already exist and customer first is pushed to the side...in the end reduced service. One good thing I have seen is their campaign to punish scripters (there are more good things, I know).

Why can't a male character wear the violet courage? It is a garment, nothing more. Why can't he wear a dress? A female character can wear male armor...maybe someone want's to role play Klinger from MASH.

In reality, an accomplished swordsman could conceivable adapt to the use of a fencing weapon as well as the club. But, then why don't we change that too? Wielding a long sword is considerably different than swinging a viking sword, which is different from swinging a battle axe. So, why not add more confusion to skills by forcing more complex levels of specialization?

You quoted one of my lines and say I said that UO fans want it everything for free. I have ML and everyone else that has done this too fall into this category...can't use Elf clothing because they are not elves. I upgraded. That cost some money. Why use it as a tool to force sales and upgrades? It is a marketing ploy because you have read that an alternative to the originally posted interesting idea was to allow others to wear with penalties. It is an article of clothing and should not have any penalties even if an orc were wearing it, and there should not be any race specific items...it can all be brought to the market and used by anyone that can afford to buy it...and the use of real life examples enhances our ability to associate arguments and clarify points. This is a game based on fantasy and reality...if that were not the case, remove the humans altogether and have some new alien race running around in game.

1. Nothing should be race specific
2. Nothing should be gender specific
3. Service is what we pay for
4. Content is what lured us to pay for the service
5. Having to upgrade to use a new line of clothing is not good.
6. Upgrading is done by the majority of players.
7. This space left intentionally blank