The Bunnies are NOT a happy bunch.

**Tabbitha** · 21-03-2008, 03:51 AM

Posted by love2winalot on Straticsa heated debate breaks out

Hail: After reading the arc cure thread stuff, and other changes made in the past, it just seems logicial to use a poll. All the advantages and disadvantages, and loop holes, and exploits and such would ALMOST ALL Be know in the Poll feedback from expierienced players.

Why always wait until it is done wrong on TC, and then change it, when you can get a lot of feedback first, tweek or just cancel it, and then put it on TC?
Just a thought.....

~~~~

Nothing wrong with that you say and I agree,but as you read on you will sense the mood change.

Kaj doesnt like the idea of a poll

Since it's nearly impossible to get a decent poll.

Relatively only very few people visit Stratics, and those are already the most listened to.
In the meanwhile very few Asian players visit Stratics, while they already make up 40-50% of the UO players, from what I've heard/read.

As for an ingame poll, many people have more than one account and people have different interests. I personally don't care about petball changes at all, so my votes, on all my accounts, would be fed by apathy, but would still count just as much as someone who cares a lot and knows the ins and outs.

I personally would dislike a poll on Stratics or uo.com, since only a select few visit those sites.

~~~~

while Sakkarah thinks its unrealistic

I dont think it's a realistic expectation to want the Devs to ask permission for any change or to put up polls. IMHO, that would significantly slow the process and not necessarily have the results expected. I think having things on TC as we do is a form of "poll". A vast majority of us are quite vocally expressing our disagreement/concerns with the potential changes. Those changes aren't done yet. As long as there is that little buffer before implementation, I think we should be doing fine.

Then again, this was a fairly quick to perform change. But it might become a problem when they devote lots of hours into developping something that may meet with loads of resistance :/

~~~~

In response to the OP ,Jeremy posts

Polls are problematic, particularly when having to do with balance issues. The majority will very seldom vote to nerf itself, after all. Putting stuff up on test center - and monitoring player reaction even after a publish goes live - generally gives more realistic results.

E. Jeremy Dalberg
UO Community Coordinator
EA Mythic
www.uo.com

~~~~

OP came back with

uote: "I dont think it's a realistic expectation to want the Devs to ask permission for any change or to put up polls. IMHO, that would significantly slow the process and not necessarily have the results expected."

Read the test center update about Arc Cure. This is exactly what happened, and EA is asking for opionions on if they should put the change on live shards, or tweak the changes to Cure/arc cure/ect ect.

It takes time to do all the coding and stuff. Why not ask, "Hey, we are thinking of doing this tweak to this skill"? and finding out it may be a bad idea, BEOFRE WASTING TIME/RESOURCES to test it on TC.

~~~~

Nystul-Cats came on board next with

Quote:

Polls are problematic, particularly when having to do with balance issues. The majority will very seldom vote to nerf itself, after all. Putting stuff up on test center - and monitoring player reaction even after a publish goes live - generally gives more realistic results.

Whens the last time any of you were on test center to look at the results?

Just because its on test center for testing don't mean you are going to hear any real feedback from the majority of the pvp scene if they have to go to a web forum like stratics to post thier feedback.

So all you all are doing is basically posting it on test center, asking for the stratics community to leave feedback. Half the people on stratics don't test, they just leave thier own opinions on the matter, which don't help nothing. Most of the other half arnt pvpers, and the ones that actually are go unheard by the vast majority of bullcrap from everyone else.

Not to mention the people that are really testing it, and experiencing it have no desire what so ever to want to come to the stratics community to express any thoughts on your latest changes.

suggestion: allow feedback to be submitted from IN GAME on the test center shard.

There you go, you get real feedback, from real players, that are ACTUALLY testing.

~~~~

and Moonglow Merchant wasnt thrilled either

So, does that mean I'll be testing the petball changes after they go live since apparently no one at EA/Mythic cares enough to put petballs in bankboxes before it goes live?

Good grief.

~~~~

and he hadnt finished ,hehe.

Polls are problematic, particularly when having to do with balance issues. The majority will very seldom vote to nerf itself, after all. Putting stuff up on test center - and monitoring player reaction even after a publish goes live - generally gives more realistic results.

That kind of backwards thinking is the reason this game is such a mess.

Although I've never seen a poll successfully used by OSI/EA/Mythic, the best process which yielded the best results was the post AOS PvP re-balance pass.

The process there was that players generated ideas to balance PvP, then we got feedback from the devs on what could be realistically implemented, there was further feedback, and then the coding was done.

The result was the best period for PvP that I can remember.

According to your logic Jeremy, that kind of process won't work because people won't "nerf themselves". Well, I can tell you from that experience that what people did wasn't "nerf themselves". What they did was provide feedback, which when weighed against other considerations improved balance.

The problem with that sort of thing now would be that EA has done such a good job of ignoring valuable feedback from players over the years that players just stopped giving feedback. Then, they went to play games where clever ideas were actually implemented.

Here we go again with the petballs.

There is a problem with this implementation that was pointed out even before the "design doc" was done.

Now, we can't even test the flawed design because there aren't any petballs on test.

According to you, that is ok because once it hits actual shards, then you will get the feedback you want anyway. Again, I just can't express how ridiculous I think that is.

You want to spend energy in the next publish cycle fixing things that were poorly implemented in this publish cycle just because you didn't

1. Properly use player feedback
2. Give players the tools to test changes

It's no wonder this game continually spins its wheels.

~~~~

While Flutter just let us know as usual that she knows things the rest of us dont

Quote:

Polls are problematic, particularly when having to do with balance issues. The majority will very seldom vote to nerf itself, after all. Putting stuff up on test center - and monitoring player reaction even after a publish goes live - generally gives more realistic results.

Quote:

Whens the last time any of you were on test center to look at the results?

*pokes*
Quiet down before I call the vamp on you.
They are on test shard more often than you realize. Just sometimes you can't see 'em

~~~~

We await more info from the 'secret squirrel' and Dev responses

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
A bunch of jewels	Ethelmar	Trade Forum	2	01-08-2007 10:03 PM
bunnies and Jeeps	killdigdiecat	UO Snapshot Centre	8	06-04-2006 08:22 PM