Source - http://blog.wired.com/games/2007/12/...oster-che.html


Ultima Online Designer: Cheating Is A Matter Of Perspective





Former Ultima Online lead designer Raph Koster


scrutinizes the debate over virtual item sales in his latest blog entry and he concludes that while these sales are cheating, the objectionable nature of cheating is completely subjective and evolutionary.


Koster points out that looking up quest objectives and locations using the Internet -- a common occurence nowadays -- was once considered a bannable offense in the multi-user dungeons that directly preceded the first graphical MMOs.


Koster's most important point is that "cheating is, in the end, violating the spirit of the rules. But the spirits of games evolve."


There will always be those who seek to gain an upper hand on others, and while game design constantly evolves to combat cheating, realistically cheating is only trumped by it becoming a socially acceptable activity, and subsequently losing its stigma.



I agree with Raph to a certain extent here.


Personally, I never want to see players given the ability to buy their way to stratospheric power in a virtual world, but I realize that there is a demand out there for this. That said, I think his example of comparing virtual item sales to the use of information sites like Thottbot is slightly off target.


The difference between quest spoilers and virtual item purchases is the number of people pulling for their inclusion in legitimate gameplay. The idea of what constitutes cheating evolved away from informative sites simply because so many people wanted to use them.


While item sales have their fans, I'd be willing to wager the Azerothian monetary equivalent of $10 USD that they are the vast majority -- an insignificant minority when compared to those who feel this sort of thing is an act of virtual heresy.


Then again, maybe I'm completely in the dark. What say you readers?

Sure, any time you use anything that gives you an advantage it can be seen as "cheating" (see: up up down down left right left right B A start, game "walkthroughs", etc). I think the real "cheating" comes from having something (bots, programs) play the game for you (some UO proggies that will auto-heal you, etc.) even while you're not there (script mining).

I agree with Dip on the use of automated programs. I see it as it as 2 different things. Paying to get in a "playable" state or using programs to autokill, increase spped etc.
I don't and never will think the purchase of gold or virtual money is. I tend to disagree that those that purchase virtual gold or items are in the minority, which is exactly why your seeing the start-up of company sites doing the selling as pointed out in Maddox's "If you can't beat them" thread.
I have to agree that it's a matter of perspective. My son and his generation we call them the "instant coffee generation" (cause they want instant gratification! lol) think nothing of getting a $60 game run to the info sites, get all the GOD mod info and beating the game in a day or so. This used to drive me nuts, mainly cause it happened before you could rent the games at Blockbuster, and we could afford and run out to buy a new game because they beat it and got bored with it. (Thak God for Madden and NHL, they would and still do, never tire of the game.) I was all about exploring and finding it out.
Now I can totally understand why folks would spend a few dollars for extra gold or even a leveling service. They want to play. And time is money period. It's more cost effective to pay a few dollars to get you to a comfortable state in a game. Again my opinion based on folks I know and what I see.

In any case it's always an emotional discussion. :-P

*wonders why Raph is still "Former Ultima Online lead designer" and not "President of Areae", or even "Former Creative Director for Star Wars Galaxies"*

Raph pretty much always does a good job at reading the minds of gamers. I have to agree with what he said.

Walk thrus and such are simply helpful, not cheating. I think the buying and selling of in-game items (weapons, gold, whatever) is ok as long as the items are acquired legally. You pay to enjoy the game. If you don't enjoy mining but want to be a blacksmith then buy your ingots, that is just free enterprise.

If bots or scripts are used to obtain the items that is cheating and should get your !!! banned. Perma-banned, accounts deleted kind of banned.

This subject of "Cheating" is very Dumb and Oppinionated...

I never dreamed I could be Banned for reading a "Walk Through" clue book, that told me everything that there was about the game I am playing...

Where in the Sanctioned rule set, does it say its illegal to do?... and the punishment for "breaking" that rule is? and the Bigger question, Why isn't anyone enforcing it?

Or an even better question, Why didn't they prosicuit the guy who wrote the book and sold it to me? If it was illegal (a cheat) to use the information, shouldn't it be illegal to Print(or host on Web) the information?... Along with selling it, for personel gains, be illegal too?...

This whole thing reminds me of when the "Rule" change for "un-attended" macroing became a reality... I don't know if anyone remembers when you could GM a swords skill by whacking a training dumie in towns, anyone remember that? You used to set a 1key macro to attack the dumie, and tape the key down on your key board so it would repeat... and just walk away... Sooo many ppl were doing it and a few were complaining, "how it wasn't realy playing the game, its cheating"... and the game sponser ppl agreed and changed the rules...

But, that allown didn't stop them, just drove them into houses... so they made sweeping changes to the software, to not allow certain skill gains in houses... and they didn't stop there, many more anti-macroing changes followed...

They basicly made the skill gain system, harder to reach max skills.... which for a short time, made a few players(ones who cheated) top dogs.... But, eventualy everyone else caught up... So, I don't get it?

Making a Harder gaining system, only adds more tedium, to reach the goal of Max skill... and increase the likelyhood that a player would WANT to curcumvent the system...

I don't get it, because once at max skill, both are equal... Who realy cares, HOW they got there? If lower skill levels had more meaning, maybe ppl wouldn't rush through them... Either way its realy a players choice to go fast or slow, whatever way they want... Is it cheating? or Freedom of choice?

Running "Bot progs", well the company dropped the ball on that one and they don't enforce the rule, NO AFK macroing... If they can't even issue 30 suspensions, to everyone caught.... Why should I care? I'm sure if they handed out enough 30daysuspensions, ppl would get the idea, the play field is being watched, so why try?

If they're at the keyboard, who cares? if they're not, bamm they're in jail... simple, someone on the games side needs to care...

Off site purchases has a beautiful chatch22...

The only thing EAM is aware of, IS that items were passed from one player to another, and thats ALL that happened... They have NO record of CASH US$ being passed... That happened somewhere else, how could they know?...

In a way EAM is promoting such activity, by making items Sooo rare, they have cash US$ value... They COULD change the game and put a hault to the practice by making things more common...

Am I cheating for purchasing these items, accounts with Full skilled chrs, Full gear, with castle, nothing more to get... Just go out and play...

Well, I think it was made that way....

I think some of you are missing the point of what is trying to be said. Forget your perspective for a moment, pretend that any given action, be it reading a walk-through or using a speed hack, is neither inherently good nor bad. The perspectives that we as players have are determined over time by what is considered acceptable and what is not. In the example of the article, some players thought long ago that reading a walk-through was bad, or not in tune with the spirit of the game. Furthermore the thought of purchasing virtual goods with real money was far more outlandish in days gone by than today. The point is that our perspectives are changing everyday, little by little as these actions become more widespread and more accepted by the rule-makers of video games.

Another example (my personal favorite) is UOAssist. Think about all the people that use UOAssist, and the huge advantage that UOAssist gives players over those without UOAssist. Imagine if, during that moment long ago, UOAssist was not added to UOPro. That means that today, most people would view UOAssist as they view other illegal programs, as oppose to today, where most see no harm in it. All in all, your perspective on cheating is not determined by you, but by the rule-makers of games over time. Now that doesn't necessarily means that perspectives can dramatically change over night. It takes time for cultures to develop.

The problem isn't buying thing to get a leg up in the game. The problem comes with people scripting, duping, and using other methods to create items in quantity that ruin the game for casual players. By ruining the economy so they have to spend real money to be able to compete, or make it so EA changed the number of items needed for an item the average players can't do the quests to get the item. How long will it take you to mine the ingots make the shields to get the mace and shield glasses?
Pre Aos you could have a guild member or a friend make you the items you needed to play. You would meet new people when you trained fighting knights at the bone wall or hitting rotting corpses at Humility.
Right now the game reminds me of when Daffy Duck is jumping on the Genie Consequences Smonsequences as long as I'm rich.

As T-t-t-toolpusher said to the conductor at the train station in the movie "Mad Max," "What a wonderful philosophy ye have."

R-r-r-raph sounds good to me.