*crosses fingers and hopes for mongbat*

The answer is right here, in Yazman's post:

The point is, it's not that the first three Ultimas don't matter, and furthermore, neither of us are saying that the first three Ultimas never happened (as far as this little virtual world is concerned). What it means, is that when the mastermind of Ultima decided to develop Britannia, this world, he took stuff out that didn't fit in: elves, fuzzies, and so forth.

I'll tell you what I said before in this thread:

You can play the later Ultimas and see references to Mondain, Minax, Exodus and things that occured in Ultima I, II, and III, but that's because it is part of the story of Ultima... the lore. In other words, these aspects of Ultima do have a consistent presence in the series, and it is these things that define Ultima. What you won't see, however, are these races. You also don't see Samurai crap because it's not what made Britannia "Britannia".

Of course, it has been stated time and time again that Ultima Online does not follow the story line of the Ultima series, which makes it far more feasible to introduce this stuff that technically doesn't fit into Ultima. However, in my humblest of opinions, I think they should stay away and keep Ultima from being yet another generic RPG, and strive to preserve the originality of Britannia that I've always been drawn towards.

OK you need to set the way back machine and remember the technology that Ultimas were created on.

As stated by Richard Gariott on many occasions the decision to leave out the other races and or genders was not based on content of the current story line it was based on the technical issues mainly storage. There were no Cd's or DVDs they usually shipped on a 5.25 disk with a capacity of 720kb to 1200kb per disk there just wasn't enough room to store the art work and object handling code for multiple character models. then there was the issue with processing power to handle all this extra data. This problem even made its way to Ultima 9 where they were forced to leave out the option for a female avatar.

Just ask Cathat what it takes to add a single shirt to the 2d client of UO today and you will see what they faced.

you just confused me here it sounds like your arguing my side

If you can play the latter ultimas and find reference to the first 3 and are "part of the story of Ultima... the lore." then aren't they still part of Ultima and continue to be a part of it and "do have a consistent presence in the series, and it is these things that define Ultima." then don't they help to make up Britannia?? ahh...... ya this one just confused me

If as you stated above "You can play the later Ultimas and see references to Mondain, Minax, Exodus and things that occured in Ultima I, II, and III, but that's because it is part of the story of Ultima... the lore." Then don't they "technically fit" into the story? Dwarfs and Fuzzies were part of them!

and by doing so are we not striving to preserve the originality of Ultima which existed long long before the other games were even thought up?

I remember when the first Ultima came out. I remember playing it on my Apple II.
I remember playing all of the Ultimas when they came out. I have always been drawn to them even the first 3.

They all contributed not only to the game but to the game industry as a whole. They accomplished remarkable things with the technology of the time.

LONG LIVE THE MONGBAT POLAR BEAR RIDING BUKUTO WEILDING WARRIORS!!!


or Dwarfs I would like to have Dwarfs too

I apologize for not making myself more clear.

Let me try again in my explanation. First let me put up this quote again:

What this means, is that when Garriot decided to actually develop what we now know as Britannia, an original world, there were certain things that had to be taken out; not all things, mind you, but some. You've said you played all the Ultimas, yes? Did any of them past Ultima IV contain any references to fuzzies, or elves or dwarves? Second question: Did they have any references to Mondain, Minax, or Exodus? The point is, *some* of the content from I, II, III made it through to the world-development process, but some of it did not. I have never heard of technical requirements affecting so drastically such important dynamics of the game.

Edit:
Hmm, well just for the heck of it let me restate my point again. The fact that you can find references to Mondain, Minax, Exodus, and some other elements that can be found in Ultima I, II, III in later Ultimas shows that they are consistent throughout the series and thus are a part of the actual lore. The fact that you cannot find references to dwarves, elves, fuzzies, and so forth in later Ultimas shows that they are not consistent throughout the series, and therefore do not hold a place in the actual Ultima Lore. In other words, some of it, but not all of it. This is reflected in the quotes stated by Yazman about how Garriot was "taking stuff out", about how "Other elements in early Ultimas included things like laser swords, spaceships, evil sentient computers, landspeeders and sci-fi elements that made the games something of a hodgepodge creatively."

Forgive me, but I have a hard time understanding how that could be possible. Ultima 9 came on two CDs, and had female character models. Somehow, it seems unlikely that a storage issue prevented them from allowing the character's model to be a female version instead of a male version. If you would please show me where you found that information, I would greatly appreciate it.

I can understand how one would come to say that if it's in Ultima I, II, III, it's part of the Ultima Lore, period. On one hand, it makes sense, but on the other hand, it doesn't make sense in that a few of these elements are not consistent throughout the series.

Now, before I hit the hay, I just want to make one more comment about the elven race in particular (please forgive me, but yes, it's part rant). Let me make something perfectly clear: the elven race being added had nothing, I repeat, *nothing* to do with lore. The devs even stated it themselves: it was a popular choice on a survey. What this says to me, is that the developers responsible for elves decided to sacrifice some of the originality of this game in favor of "listening" to players knowing that the players do not always know what's best for the game. Except for me. I know everything.

Yet another edit! : And another thing, because I have a feeling this will pop up at some point. Anything can be explained my friends. Just because they justify Samurai's by referring to the Land of the Feudal Lords, or explaining that elves suddenly appeared from a giant tree that we've never noticed before doesn't necessarily mean they belong. And if all else fails, just use this explanation: A wizard did it.

I honestly cannot wait for this. This client makes Ultima Online seem more "real" in my opinion. It just looks great from what I have seen.

My concern is what happens when you get a mob of people or monsters on the screen
Does the system requirements then shoot through the roof?
For instance, imagine a champ spawn with all the magical effects going off at the same time.

OK then you have never programmed. To this vary day they do even in UO. I beta tested UO and the decision to leave out multiple player races was technical not story driven I remember the discussions and the reasons for leaving them out it had nothing to do with Ultima or any other fiction it was 100% technical. You are still bound by the limitations of the hardware.

I will also give you this quote about U9: found here
“4.6.1.1 Will there be an option for a female Avatar?
Yes. This was not included in Ultima VIII due to the number of animation frames required. 1,200 frames were used for The Avatar alone!”
And as stated the female avatar did not make it into U9 because of technical reasons as well. Even though they had full intentions of doing so.

And here is actual quote from one of the developers working on a latter Ultima found in that game.

“If we don’t get some kind of compression we will be shipping on 9 CD’s”

You always have to make sacrifices to content in order to have a product that can make it to the consumers. You mentioned U4 so let me remind you that a lot more content was added to it then was taken away from U3 in order to be able to ship this new content some things had to be left out. What would you rather have multiple player races or the virtues? If you have a box that will only hold so much information what do you put in and what do you leave out? The box dictates a lot of what you can do.


You can’t pick and chose your history it existed it is and always will be part of the lore.
Yes the story changed every thing changes but that dose not invalidate the history.

Again you need to pull your head out of the present and remember the past.
Ultima 1 was the first it had 2 elements in it sci-fi and fantasy. In order to progress each element the two were split. The sci-fi was developed into Wing Commander and the rest remained under the Ultima title. And again there was also the technical issue of leaving them together the programs would have been huge!!
I would also like to remind people that the Wing Commander story line never completely left the Ultima story but don’t take my word for it just read about it here
ok again you obviously are not a programmer. Do you remember the cut scenes? Do you have any idea of what goes into making a game there is a lot more then just a character model or a single peace of art! What you see is not all of what is going on.
Consistency is a mater of looking at the whole not just the part you like!
O MY GOD!! Did I read that correctly? Wow I have now idea how to respond to this, it has no basis in realty. All I can say is that if it sells more product then it is good for the game because the game will continue to be funded and continue to exist! That is good!!
Well all I have to say about this is that you originally stated that Dwarfs never existed in Ultima and as my original post on this subject pointed out that they in fact did exist in Ultima. Nothing you can come up with to try to explain away their existence will change that fact that I can load up an early Ultima and select a dwarf or fuzzy as a race to play.

Now if you will excuse me I think I will go Log into UO with my Elf archer grab my favorite Yumi bow and go hunt some Oni so I can stock up on Bukuto’s to use with my polor bear riding mongbat warrior when they are added to the game!

I'm not to worried about it. I love the way it looks at this point and it seams that they are keeping the technical aspect of game play in mind by "gearing it for lower end systems."

but we will always feel the presence of the Lag monster. I have died more to the Lag monster then anything else in game!

Thats actually a really good question... Id hope it doesnt mess up the champ spawns etc..