Petals, Potions and Pouches

**Vepl** · 24th June 2007, 08:16 PM

Since we have already started this subject and close to finishing it. Wanted to bring it up here

Quote:

Originally Posted by DiP

1. Items (items themselves, not Properties on Wearable Items... that's for another topic) replacing skills (apples, trapped boxes, petals, etc.). Yes, I know, the items have been in place and are working as intended, still not right.

2. Doesn't seem right that someone can have the benefit of having 120 Resist + XX Chiv (Remove Curse) all by carrying a few items. Also throw in all the types of potions with 100% EP (Dex, Str, Heal, Cure, etc.) and it's the same as having Magery + Chiv + Healing.

3. Remove the items. J/K. I wouldn't be too upset about items replacing skills if there were limited (not by how much you can carry, but in usage/benefit). Say maybe, give Resist some added bonus that eating an orange petal and tripping a trapped box won't be able to give you. To have more incentive to use a skill instead of an item. Allow orange petals to be the equivelant to GM resist when it comes to resisting Poison, so it's not a guarantee immunization. Make trapped boxes paralyze you for a few seconds after tripping them (won't 'cause any imbalance in game, it'll just remove the cheap reason to use one). Remove Curse apples/talismans were a bad idea in the first place, but atleast with the talismans you need to wait longer (I think) and recharge the item.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mikhail Amarese

Cooldown timers would be an interesting "quick fix", but I agree with DiP that they won't really solve his issue completely. Each one really kind of needs its own specific fix. For instance, the trapped boxes breaking paralysis. If you're paralyzed, how in the heck are you tripping the trap on the box? The easiest fix there, to me, is to change the setup so that SELF-INFLICTED damage doesn't break a paralysis. The reason we won't likely see that change is the poo-storm it would start. As for orange petals, never bothered with 'em so I couldn't tell ya.

Skill enhancing items - seems logical to me to require a base amount of points in the skill BEFORE you see any improvement from these items. Even if the items will make you an uber-mage, you still have to be at least a bumbling apprentice before you grasp the concept behind magic well enough to utilize the sudden power you're granted, something along those lines.

Think that sums up the problem of petals, potions and trapped pouches/boxes taking the place of magic resist.

The solution that seems to be popular is: Timer on all potions/petals and trapped pouches/boxs. Make it where no potion/petal is 100% effective 100% of the time. If a player has alchemy the potions get a boost in effectiveness. Have that boost greater then EP can reach. Make EP cap around 25%. Trapped pouchs/boxes should still leave a person paralyzed for 5 seconds.

A question I would ask is: If a player has tinkering on a character should it lower the paralyze timer of the trapped box?

Vepl

**DiP** · 24th June 2007, 11:42 PM

That would make a little sense, or maybe Detect Hidden/Remove Trap.

Also, there are still apples, grapes, and talismans that kinda all float in the same boat.

Listed as follows:

ITEM----Skill/spell Equivelant---Cost use compared to just having to carry item.

Apples - Remove Curse/Chiv Skill - skill points, gold*(LRC), mana requirement

Grapes of Wrath (I forget what they do, but they do something

)

Talismans - Property Depenant - Varies (skill points, mana)

Apples could have an extended timer, or have a chance to fail with maybe Taste ID giving a boost.

Grapes of Wrath, I still need to look at.

Talismans have built in requirements (# of uses, timer) but maybe add mana consumption to them so there actually is "something" that you take a hit with for using it.

**bendavho** · 25th June 2007, 07:41 AM

Yes, I agree, even though I live off items, there needs to be some adjustment.

What do you guys think about this, what if magic resist did stack with your armor resist? Yes, it will be very easy to max out resist (that is the point), but then you can get lots of mods on your suit. Just my 2 cents

Gieschen · 25th June 2007, 07:46 AM

**Vepl** · 25th June 2007, 10:10 AM

I'll make a thread just for the magic resist/item topic Ben

I'm still checking on grapes of wrath. No idea what they do

So if we reduce effectiveness, put in a timer, add mana cost(?), and allow certain skills to reduce the penalty given to the item. It would encourage the use of real skills and not totally nerf items where they are useless?

Vepl

**DiP** · 25th June 2007, 10:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vepl

So if we reduce effectiveness, put in a timer, add mana cost(?), and allow certain skills to reduce the penalty given to the item. It would encourage the use of real skills and not totally nerf items where they are useless?

Sounds good to me. As long as the differences with/without skill would greatly encourage the use of skills.

**bendavho** · 25th June 2007, 10:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DiP

Sounds good to me. As long as the differences with/without skill would greatly encourage the use of skills.

Hopefully, this happens later then sooner

Gieschen · 25th June 2007, 10:31 AM

So is this one ready to get the final draft? Or are we going to be specific one which items need what?

**Vepl** · 25th June 2007, 11:25 AM

Ok let me put some numbers to this and let me know what you think.

Petals: No timer as they already have one between uses. 75% effective against lesser poison, 50% effective against poison, 30% effective against greater poison, 20% effective against deadly poison and 10% effective against lethal poison.

Greater Cure Potions: Seven second timer between uses. 100% effective against lesser poison, 80% effective against poison, 60% effective against greater poison, 40% effective against deadly poison, 20% effective against lethal poison. Mana cost of 8. Alchemy skill at GM would: Reduce timer to three second, increase effectiveness two and a half fold and mana cost of 4.

Total Refresh: Seven second timer between uses. Mana cost 15. Alchemy skill at GM would reduce timer to three seconds and mana cost to 8

Greater Strength and Greater Agility: Seven second timer between uses. Mana cost 12. The max benefit from the potion is dependent on your alchemy skill up to 100% at GM alchemy.

Heal: Timers as presently designed. Mana cost 11. Without any alchemy each level of heal would be half as effective as it is now designed. With GM alchemy it would be 100% effective as it is now (sliding scale of effectiveness as alchemy goes up).

Explosion: No timer. Mana cost 20. Effectiveness as presently designed.

Conflagration: No timer. Mana cost 20 Effectiveness as presently designed.

(Note: EP to be capped at a point where it's effect is never greater then 50% of what GM alchemy is.)

Trapped pouches/boxes: Timer of 5 seconds of paralyzation. Mana cost 10. Damage as it is now designed. With GM tinkering a trapped box (nothing will change how a trapped pouch works) will have a 2 second timer and a mana cost of 5.

Talisman: Timer as designed unless used in conjuction with a similar potion. Then the potion timer will take precedence. Add a mana cost of 10.

Enchanted Apple: Timer of seven seconds. Effectiveness of 50%. Mana cost 20. GM cooking will reduce the timer to three seconds, boost the effectiveness to 99% and reduce the mana cost to 10

Grapes of Wrath: (still researching)

Did I over look anything?

Vepl

Gieschen · 25th June 2007, 02:27 PM

Okay, I am curious why there would be a mana cost for potions? Would something else be more effective/realistic? Say a stamina cost instead, since the character is trying to fight at the same time they are using the potions (generally).

24th June 2007, 11:42 PM	#2
DiP Ronin<br>UOForums Bouncer Join Date: Jan 2006 Shard: Black Water Raiders, Azeroth Posts: 9,141 Gold: 19,463 My Mood: Thanks: 141 Thanked 100 Times in 84 Posts	Re: Petals, Potions and Pouches That would make a little sense, or maybe Detect Hidden/Remove Trap. Also, there are still apples, grapes, and talismans that kinda all float in the same boat. Listed as follows: ITEM----Skill/spell Equivelant---Cost use compared to just having to carry item. Apples - Remove Curse/Chiv Skill - skill points, gold(LRC), mana requirement Grapes of Wrath (I forget what they do, but they do something ) Talismans - Property Depenant - Varies (skill points, mana) Apples could have an extended timer, or have a chance to fail with maybe Taste ID giving a boost. Grapes of Wrath, I still need to look at. Talismans have built in requirements (# of uses, timer) but maybe add mana consumption to them so there actually is "something" that you take a hit with for using it. Thanks again Maddux! Adri: women don't discuss men while in the bathroom, we sacrifice small animals and smoke tampons rolls eyes* Last edited by DiP; 24th June 2007 at 11:44 PM.

25th June 2007, 07:41 AM	#3
bendavho Forum Legend Join Date: Aug 2006 Shard: Lake Austin Posts: 3,573 Gold: 130 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: Petals, Potions and Pouches Yes, I agree, even though I live off items, there needs to be some adjustment. What do you guys think about this, what if magic resist did stack with your armor resist? Yes, it will be very easy to max out resist (that is the point), but then you can get lots of mods on your suit. Just my 2 cents

25th June 2007, 07:46 AM	#4
Gieschen Bringing RP back to mmoRPg! w0o+!!!!!!1 <-----???? Join Date: Jun 2007 Shard: Great Lakes Posts: 364 Gold: 105 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: Petals, Potions and Pouches n/t Last edited by Gieschen; 25th June 2007 at 10:07 PM. Reason: n/t

25th June 2007, 10:10 AM	#5
Vepl Forum Legend Join Date: Oct 2006 Shard: Lake Superior Posts: 3,641 Gold: 570 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: Petals, Potions and Pouches I'll make a thread just for the magic resist/item topic Ben I'm still checking on grapes of wrath. No idea what they do So if we reduce effectiveness, put in a timer, add mana cost(?), and allow certain skills to reduce the penalty given to the item. It would encourage the use of real skills and not totally nerf items where they are useless? Vepl Another Quality Job by Atlas607 Member of K*S

25th June 2007, 10:31 AM	#8
Gieschen Bringing RP back to mmoRPg! w0o+!!!!!!1 <-----???? Join Date: Jun 2007 Shard: Great Lakes Posts: 364 Gold: 105 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: Petals, Potions and Pouches So is this one ready to get the final draft? Or are we going to be specific one which items need what?

25th June 2007, 11:25 AM	#9
Vepl Forum Legend Join Date: Oct 2006 Shard: Lake Superior Posts: 3,641 Gold: 570 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: Petals, Potions and Pouches Ok let me put some numbers to this and let me know what you think. Petals: No timer as they already have one between uses. 75% effective against lesser poison, 50% effective against poison, 30% effective against greater poison, 20% effective against deadly poison and 10% effective against lethal poison. Greater Cure Potions: Seven second timer between uses. 100% effective against lesser poison, 80% effective against poison, 60% effective against greater poison, 40% effective against deadly poison, 20% effective against lethal poison. Mana cost of 8. Alchemy skill at GM would: Reduce timer to three second, increase effectiveness two and a half fold and mana cost of 4. Total Refresh: Seven second timer between uses. Mana cost 15. Alchemy skill at GM would reduce timer to three seconds and mana cost to 8 Greater Strength and Greater Agility: Seven second timer between uses. Mana cost 12. The max benefit from the potion is dependent on your alchemy skill up to 100% at GM alchemy. Heal: Timers as presently designed. Mana cost 11. Without any alchemy each level of heal would be half as effective as it is now designed. With GM alchemy it would be 100% effective as it is now (sliding scale of effectiveness as alchemy goes up). Explosion: No timer. Mana cost 20. Effectiveness as presently designed. Conflagration: No timer. Mana cost 20 Effectiveness as presently designed. (Note: EP to be capped at a point where it's effect is never greater then 50% of what GM alchemy is.) Trapped pouches/boxes: Timer of 5 seconds of paralyzation. Mana cost 10. Damage as it is now designed. With GM tinkering a trapped box (nothing will change how a trapped pouch works) will have a 2 second timer and a mana cost of 5. Talisman: Timer as designed unless used in conjuction with a similar potion. Then the potion timer will take precedence. Add a mana cost of 10. Enchanted Apple: Timer of seven seconds. Effectiveness of 50%. Mana cost 20. GM cooking will reduce the timer to three seconds, boost the effectiveness to 99% and reduce the mana cost to 10 Grapes of Wrath: (still researching) Did I over look anything? Vepl Another Quality Job by Atlas607 Member of K*S

25th June 2007, 02:27 PM	#10
Gieschen Bringing RP back to mmoRPg! w0o+!!!!!!1 <-----???? Join Date: Jun 2007 Shard: Great Lakes Posts: 364 Gold: 105 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: Petals, Potions and Pouches Okay, I am curious why there would be a mana cost for potions? Would something else be more effective/realistic? Say a stamina cost instead, since the character is trying to fight at the same time they are using the potions (generally).

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
Orange Petals	Merc	Ultima Online General Discussion	2	29th August 2007 02:31 PM
Trapped Pouches	Bishibosh	Ultima Online General Discussion	15	5th December 2006 06:20 PM
Looking for potions	Kimi_Mori	Siege Perilous	3	18th January 2006 11:40 PM