callumf

Hedlyn wrote this on the centralized rp thread and I thought I might like to comment here rather than in that thread.

"You can try being a leader, but in my experience it doesn't matter how much sense you speak - Europa roleplay's a popularity contest. The Callums and the Irvyns and the Seriya's of the community, past and present, have been in positions to instigate change because they were popular.

If any of those people are still around, they don't speak up."

Firstly I'm still around, still semi-active in UO and still active on the forums. Sad thing is that no-one seems interested in what I have got to say. [No Im not crying about it just stating a fact]

I think perhaps Hedlyn's quote is oversimplification. I agree it has always been a popularity contest - but it has also been tinged with other factors such as "talking sense", "trying to help the [trademark] community" and being passionate about the game.

Oh and actually making scenarios for people to play around with.

Speaking for myself I can say I have pissed off a few GMs by badgering them and tryign to get them to do stuff and work together as leaders. And I am their biggest critic - perhaps too often?

Seriya was[is] the most sensible and open and honest person who played UO and she was a "leader" due to those reasons as much as her kind manner and avoidance of trolling and flaming. She was and is sensible and intelligent [like Irvyns player] and always spoke sense with a kind manner and wit and humour.

So yes - maybe a popularity contest but pretty much one where any perceived winners weren't in it for that reason. More of a by product of their personalities.

Some people can be genuinly nice and intelligent and make good role models/leaders.

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To answer the general question [posed later in the thread] though - where are and who are the leaders?

Most have left or are inactive.

The All GM Board is still there to be used by the UO GMs [over on f4g.net].

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After the acrimonious CoRE/ERPA split most "leaders" didnt want control. The lessons learned in ERPA were ones most felt they didn't want to repeat in the future. Most GMs didnt feel the need to join CoRE and didnt want to be dictated to. SO CoRE became the hub around which RP moved - but with little genuine "leadership" - more democratic like a commitee.

We formed the All GM board and mostly discussions and communications continued - again with no real single leadership.

Where are the leaders now? [Returning to this question]

Mostly gone because there was never a full consensus and because many of the "leaders" gave up trying to make things work in the face of insurmountable opposition and differences of opinion.

Quite a few realised that it just wasn't worth the effort banging one's head repeatedly against the brick wall.

There is also the no-win situation.

Set up a scenario/idea and everyones dying for it to fail.

Dont set anything up and your accused of being a lazy GM.

Move to Vesper and your guild moans.

Dont move to Vesper and your guild/everyone moans.

I am still passionate about UO and the community and Im still here. Popularity and respect and cudos is nice - I wont deny I dont enjoy a certain level of notoriety [stop smirking Hedlyn] and I wont deny it hasn't given me a buzz trying to sort the GMs out sometimes.

But this is a new time with new GMs and ideas [surely] so if you want to know who the leaders are and what they are doing - then look to your own GM first and ask him/her whats going on with this commuinty and if anyone wants to try and fix it - I will try and help as always.

Cheers

[Callum - King of Poularity =P]

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Dorian Abronsius

This post had me thinking a lot, actually, and (from the point of view of someone that had some things running without being popular at it) it was those two lines from Callum that really sum it up for me:


Back in the days when I first began to harass others with my ideas for guilds and events there was a general feeling of community. Not everybody was best friends but it was a feeling of being on the same side. The fun dwindled away when that sense of community ceased to exist. First it was some guilds leaving to do their own things. Then it was some sort of democracy with claws and teeth all out.

The absolute end of it for me was the All-GM board. It was the prime example of futility. Callum meant well and it was a good idea as such, but the people gathered there were unwilling to be a community. Literally everything turned into a great fight; at the end of which there was not even a solution. They would see it through then after dragging the most ridiculous points out for years they would go "naa, we won't follow that anyway". Its the same still. Everybody wants to be the boss, everybody wants to make the decisions and the rules and decide where to play. Just that it isn't working.

When the biggest post count and the most swearwords win a discussion then many people just don't feel at home enough anymore to invest their time. Or they stick to their little niche of the world where they are safe from the woes of the rest. For me, that works fine, but its not necessarily supportive to the entire community. *goes back into hiding*

Udrak

So basically, what you're saying is that, the majority of current guild GMs are pretty much non-existent and uninterested in the community as it is now? That if we want to make a change we have to do it ourselves?

I think Sineal's idea of 1 big new guild, 1 area all new characters is probably the winner.

callumf

Not exactly no

I am saying that there are a lot less "leaders" around than there were - there are still active GMs and active "leaders" but there are substantially less than there were even two years ago.

As to doing it yourself - just go and do it and make it happen. Tell people what your doing and where and if they are interested they will come to join you. If they like it they will stay.

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Gwen Irima

And what will those people do who have spend ages building their character, their character background, the person who it is today after many hours (or years) of rp? Will the ones who do not wish to start a new character be left out of this plan ?

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Hedlyn

That sounds like someone I know.


Oh wait.

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Radek Wilkes (Grd)

If that ever went ahead, it would be to save the RP community. So the people who wanted it saving would sacrifice their characters and the reputation for the chance of still getting some form of RP.

By all means, if it happens, you can stay and RP with the mongbat dartboard, while people make an effort to save the community.

Sacrifice will be needed for the idea Sineal proposed, from everyone, it's not like he's only saying just you have to start over. It's -everyone's- characters, but it's a sacrifice people would be willing to make to save the community.

Gwen Irima

I'm sure that if the rp community needs saving, people would do their part to help out. I just personally think it is quite inconsiderate to force people to make a new character or else be left out from the possible new rp community while probably some or many of these people have given/are giving so much to the current community.

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Udrak

You're not the only person ever to have made a character and put time into it you know. The rest of us would be sacrificing our characters if we decided to do it as well.

Olk Samsca

Any position of leadership is ultimately based on popularity. You can't lead if the people refuse to follow.

Hedlyn

That rather depends on who has the map. ;)

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Stewan Seagull

That would be sensible. People aren´t ;)