We're not allowed to be fierce under CoRE rules. We have to give a warning and stand around like tins of milk before we can attack or, you know, take gold or prisoners? As Orcs do.

And you obviously haven't met me and Xnath ingame :v

To be fair, TGL and UD were on the whole extremely good at roleplaying their respective races.

I don't think it's really the language that's a problem. At the risk of offending my dear compatriot yet again, I do find myself raising a brow at anyone who learns an entire fantasy language off by heart.

I don't really think the language itself is essential. I spent ages investing time in an old TBK/KTD character and I was happy with my portrayal of samurai, I used bits of pidgin Japanese to get the point across and keep mood but even the thought of learning a real language for the solitary purpose of roleplay sort of felt wrong. The limits of my Japanese pretty much restrict most dialogue beyond anata wa baka desu. That doesn't make me a bad roleplayer, it just means I wasn't bundling all the emphasis in the wrong places.

That said, I do think Mr. Gill is right in saying there are a lot of vanilla characters out there. In fact I think a lot of those people use the language TO hide the fact their character is little more than a walking stereotype. A bit like the besieger division and grunting. ;)

Or Celts and the word 'feck' ;)

Hoitehkofens'a'dat, ye'rwhoinehcont.

*goes into defense because always have played elves*
Learning elvish (quenya or sindarin) is almost impossible. God i tried, but there is just too little information to speak full sentences and there isn't a handy sentence translator. Not to mention when i ran E-V i always urged my members to not speak a language nobody could understand anyway. I've actually never met anyone who could speak full sindarin/elvish. And why do elves have to be haughty and aloof? No where in uo lore it states that that is how the elves are supposed to be.

So set up raids for your guild where you don’t have to pre warn. If the enemy players know your going to attack in an organised raid, there's no need to pre warn. Problem solved. Anyway, this pre warning rule has had just about as many arguments over it as the single rp community subject has.

I never said that it is essential for a good character to learn a language that nobody understands. Its even impractical. But I do think it a nice touch when two drow for example go through the troubles of typing their lines into that neat translator to deliver their entire conversation in drowish. As it is equally neat when other guilds have bits and words, be it japanese or orcish or made up to underline their image.

Just my argument, so I am not sure why you try to wield it against me? Centralisation only makes this worse. The closer you stuff people together, the more they will blend and mix. everybody gets used to each other until no meeting is special anymore.

So you can't play good orcs because you can't whack people right away? I never understood that argument. Plus, I saw plenty of roleplay that worked very well without it. (Even in Ursik!)


My main point remains though, people would rather wipe the entire community and blend it all together in one spot rather than unbury what is left of their civility and cooperate in a manner and degree allows for problems to actually get solved. Why moon after an idea that is never going to work when you can't even fill the basic requirements? If people want to rant, flame and insult then fine, go on, but don't pretend that you are trying to rescue the community.

/Offtopic

Well, no, but that's because UO Lore doesn't really deal with the issue in depth. Generally in fantasy they are portrayed as regarding themselves as above the 'lesser races'. Whether the implication is that this is justified or not is down to the author - some make out elves to be some kind of master race whereas others continuingly point out their shortcomings compared to other races. But in either case they're not exactly humble. At best, they're portrayed as treating non elves with benevolent condescension. At worst, they're shown to be unbearably arrogant and widely hold racial supremacist views for no good reason. If I was to play an elf i'd certainly play the latter, but people who like to play elves generally have a very sympathetic view of them and don't want to tarnish their image.

There was always a 'unspoken rule' [ sort of ] in past times,where brigands,thieves,murderers etc,would lie in ambush outside a town or along the roads,around and about.

Travellers along those roads would be pounced on in a surprise attack.

The only rules were as follows.

1. The attack had to be roleplayed.
2. Person on the receiving end HAD to be given the chance rp wise to get away.
3. Players were to be contacted for ooc agreement beforehand.



Problems that arose from this was too many folk found that when a group of brigands, for example, tried to rob them

1. They were on the way to an event/plotline and didnt 'have time'
2. They were on their way to log out.
3. Those carrying out the 'mugging' found almost all they encountered,didnt want to be 'captured or mugged'
4. Many times it would end in pvp,which the 'victim' didnt want

The same went for folk being thrown in jail for crimes in a town.
Players would go to a town/area,behave in a criminal way,but then cause havoc ooc if they were attacked or thrown in jail.

Ive actually seen people recall right out of the middle of a roleplay session, because of the above,despite having been found wandering through an enemy town.

No idea what they expected really...but as Henry said its been discussed as many times as the main topic for this thread.

Now a few years back, there was an Assassins Guild [ in a RP sense].

Now the way this worked [ as far as my limited knowledge of them is] was as follows.

Some one wanted a contract taken out on a character in game.

There was a private forum that only the Assasins used.

One person was responsible for contacting the 'victim' first ooc to inform them a contract had been requested.They were then asked if
a) they agreed to it being tried.
b) what times they were most likely to be in game say for the next 7/14 days etc.

If they agreed,the contract was then posted on the forum,and accepted by one of the Assassins.

The person would never know ic or ooc when it would take place and IC they would not know/recognise who it was that attacked them.


How about the 'bad guys' get together and organise for 1 person to oversee a system similar.

Regular roleplayers could be contacted via PM and agree/not agree to be confronted in game whilst travelling around.

Obviously those intending to carry out any attacks should bear in mind ongoing events etc,and make sure via party chat the person is free right there and then,to interact.

My character was at one time a regular 'captive'. It wasnt because I was more popular than anyone else,it was more the fact I was willing to agree to it.

I have always beleived the 'bad guys' should be given way more
opportunities than they get to be as bad as they want.

In any town,village,city in RL there are bad guys and they sure as heck arent going to send you a message before they carry out their intent.
So constantly expecting those player types to 'pre-arrange' every attack, skirmish,bank job,to me takes away the spontaneity we have debated in this thread.
A system is needed so wether its an orc or a brigand,the opportunities to roleplay who they are should be afforded them.

We need more 'dishonest people' willing to take bribes and allow the baddies to get into places etc and then its up to them to make the most of that situation.

A town could even agree that 1 night a week,say, could be a 'free for all night'.

So it would be a regular sort of event,where all those warred to each other know they can go to that town on that night,and roleplay according to their type.

It wouldnt take too long imo, for those who enjoy some or a lot of pvp, to either be in town on these nights,going about there business or gathering as a group elsewhere planning to attack.

I hope what I'm trying to say makes some sense.:variousa:

Well, we don't go on raids IC to interact socially, we go to plunder, pillage and kill. Nobody has ever offered themselves to me as a captive. If you wanted some RP with an Orc, come to Orc lands, get captured and watch what goes on. But most people don't have the time or patience, Orcs included. People want to login, get some pvp and logout. The idea of "RP" at the minute seems to be that and attending a market/tavern once a month.

As for languages. I, personally, loved black speech. But I did try to 'dumb it down' as much as possible for new members, to the point where the only black speech they had to know was I, You, Is/Am, Hi/Bye, 'Leader', Human, Orc, Kill, Follow and type English although speaking from the throat, but even then they just said "too hard" and quit anyway, so it was basically just key/veteran members playing and we just spoke to each other in black speech. Having our own language was a big part of who Tolagal was. If we were running down the road going "halt, thou art on orc lands, human!" it wouldn't have been quite so... interesting or fun.

Um..no? Seriously, if that is your idea of RP then... then that explains a lot, actually.

There is much, much more going on then that and if your guild seriously has no more perspective than logging in to kill someone then you should really reconsider your style of leadership and take a very deep lesson into how orcs can be played interestingly.

P.S. At least around Trinsic people get captured and abducted all the time? Never saw an orc trying, so far?