Leave now if you wish to.


Ok, I have been watching this thread very closely for several reasons,and havent been posting because
1. as an admin I try not to be seen to be 'taking sides'
2. I like to give the regular player base to put their ideas forward and not contribute to a 'GM' influx of posts.

I cant keep quiet any longer though as the points I had to refrain responding to are mounting up.

So those of you who arent familiar with me I tend to waffle on and make long posts,and those of yopu who do know me ,well you know whats coming .

So this is me taking off my 'Admin' hat and speaking purely as an experienced Roleplaying GM.

I am going to start with post 74 from the Original Poster because he hit the nail on the head totally when he wrote



While there may be nothing 'spontaneous about an event that has been 'organised' ooc planning is needed to get
the event manned and set up.

Thats where the 'script' should end though,and players imaginations kick in.

An 'event' should only ever be a spring board for the diverse roleplaying styles of the whole Community.

The spontaneity is the responsibility of everyone.
The success of an event is the responsibility of everyone.

Ill give an example.

I 'organised' a Trinsic Fayre one time.I made sure it got the usual ooc /ic advertising as to date ,time etc.

END OF.!!!

That was the end of 'my event','my involvement' etc.

It then becomes the Community of Roleplayers Event.!!!


If we take todays current climate and or/attitude of players how many of you would see that advert
and think ,well[name] wont be attending because of A,B,C.?

How many would of thought up an excuse NOT to go,before thinking of a possible way TO go. ?

Going on some of the comments posted in this thread,quite a few.

How many would of had the ingenuity to turn up at that event on an alt/blu character and roleplay a female fireater?

Enthralling the 'crowd' with dare devil feats and reaping in lots of coins?

Well a poster here did just that,and I sat at my PC thrilled at the whole performance.

I had no idea at the time who it was,but I know you are now,as I was told many,many months later.


Thats the kind of responsibility I am talking about us taking.

I have many times said as a Community,we needed to support each other much more by turning up to each others events

I dont see that having changed to the point where it isnt still an urgent factor.





Yes!!! bring your character to life.Regardless of what type you roleplay,surely there are basic needs/functions they all have.

Where do thay all sleep,eat,wash,shop,dress etc,and who from ?

How many of you have crafters?

Am I to beleive you couldnt take that crafter to an event and do any of the following?


I recall almost always seeing Vanqa selling her 'pies' at any event she could from an IC perspective.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~





'competent enough to coordinate things on a large
scale '



I dont think 'competent' is the correct term here tbh.

Its more about having the real life time AND commitment to do such a thing.

I know for a fact that certain players did spend almost all their free time,
planning this scale of things to move the Community forward.

People such as Klion,Bladius,Eric Arkay,Octoviuos,Twothumb and others I probably dont know about
gave the Community hours of gametime setting up conflicts,meetings,peace talks,etc etc.


There have been many territorial wars that were set up also.

Travelling caravans going on journeys from one town to another all brought fun and some times a lot of ooc hassle.

Trinsic some [2?] years back split the town into 'zones' to try accomodate evil/good guilds.

This ooc turned into a disaster between several guilds and players and split the RP community as a whole,and imo was the beginning of an end to a lot of interaction persay.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~



Absolutely.I have had more fun on my alt characters than Tabbitha the past 2 years.

She was either always caught up with IC meetings to disuss war/peace etc than actually

being able to just wander around towns etc.

Or I was so busy OOC trying to arganise things for various guilds to interact and
do together that it got to a stage where I didnt even log into the game some nights.

The chance to actually 'play' the game got less and less as the need to try draw players

to log in for more than a half hour grew.

Playing an alt became a form of relaxation.



Some are still around,but I suspect many are just 'burnt out' as per the previous Quote
and are just watching the thread as opposed to replying atm.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


Indeedy and if anyone wants the BEST example of this just look at VTC's examples.

At times horrendously annoying,but some of THE funniest times I have had ,have been
in the middle of one of their hairbrained 'plots'.


Many of them have been executed in Yew,as I know any Grd here will confirm,and they have to be one of the few the

truly spontaneous guild of players I came across.

A LOT of other guild/players had problems with them but they just kept on doing what they did.

Some of the storyboard contributions were testimony to their roleplay,but sadly I trhink most were lost when
F4g sadly went down a good while back.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

AND


AND



Ok, heres the thing.

Everyone is NOT going to up sticks and move their guild and its years of RP History to another area.
Apart from DOT who rp protecting the town of Paladins,there are also guilds such as KT, who in spite of being allied to Grd,asre sure as heck not going to leave Templewood.!!!


So I would say that[ for now] its just not the right time.

However why not try this.

Choose one night,ANY night,and not one everyone has agreed is the 'best night for me'



So lets say Wednesday,from 8-10 pm.

Everyone makes or uses an alt character.

Those alts are all going to 'live' in one area.

BUT its going to be a different area every month.

So each month a new 'area'.

If Yew is the current area,obviuosly Grd can stay on their mains.

If it's Trinsic DOT stay on their mains.



The point is the rest ALL get on a different character and go to the town/area of the
month and use the opportunity to interact with players ,you may not get on with using your main.

I have done this many times to try get to know aniother player,particularly one my main may have had
a problem with.

Its a viable way of centralising without disbanding/moving guilds.

Its a way of creating a situation for spontaneity.

Its a way of getting to know another players character with no ooc history,unless YOU choose it to be a problem.


It will take commitment though and will need everyone who is passionate about this thread to agree to do it.

So on a given Wednesday during a month the only people logged in should be in the designated area of the month.

Everyone gets a chance to roleplay their own style,everyone gets an opportunity to rp.

It is then up to the host area/guild to provide enough going on for just 2 HOURS a week, to accomodate others.

The interest would be around roleplay not pvp, as many wouldnt have a character able to pvp.

It would be an opportunity for people to RP fighting atc.


It would also be an ideal way for all guilds to bring others to 'their area' and show what happens in their world.


If anyone has a 'secret' area they dont wish others to know about then make one of
the unused towns like Minoc,Umbra etc,yours for that month, using the shops ,Inns etc as specific to your rp style.

/end

Id just like to welcome Timothy Young and Mordred to UOGForums.

Its great to see you here,Mordred.
Took me an hour or more to put my post together and you posted in between

Glad to see you're still around too! Thought you were gone! Anyway, I liked your idea and i'd like to give it a shot really. Sounds like fun!

I don't. Which is the point. I made my point and Gwen/VanQa wasn't offended, there's no reason for you not to be. And for the record Yew = not just Stonekeep.

Exactly, that was my point.

They left blaming others.. if they can't be arsed to start/no longer try and aid the RP community, then they have no right to say that any of us that are left are unreasonable.

& RE Tim Young: Erm, no.

Merging guilds isn't "the answer", it's a kop out. The "answer" is better and more co-opperative communication between guilds. The answer is working with each other to help mutually sustain the COMMUNITY and not just your own guild's pride.

Unfortunately there are people on here that don't understand the concept of community. No names mentioned, eh, Klion*?






[*let's face it, no whine thread about Europa roleplay is complete without a dig at Klion, eh buddy?]

Lolwut? most people I know (which is a lot) left because of a mixture of boredom and drama. Sure, the drama can be amusing at times, but not so much when you end up in the middle of it because so many of the "roleplayers" in the "community" are wankers.
People can deny this all they want, but I'm pretty sure everyone knows plenty of friends that left when drama began outweighing the fun. I've personally got an ICQ list full.

There are lots of other more specific reasons why people left, but I can't be arsed to explain them, being one of those lazy people and all.

But hey, you can continue to pretend that there is nothing wrong with the community, that only people who sucked left, and try and play with the ever-shrinking RPlayerbase. And you can continue to bring up this topic, increasingly often, as people try and wrestle with the idea of having to play with people they don't like as there become fewer and fewer options available (people not liking others in the community is the crux of the problem afterall).

It will be a fun read if nothing else.

Did that with my own guild because it was small and not getting any bigger. I have not regretted one moment joining with a larger more active guild Can really advise other small guilds to do this as well

No, I cant speak for the others but dontcome here assuming things, I quit because of boredom of UO. Lack of support from EA (Ever tried reaching them?) Since UO wasnt only RP for me.. I need a game I can have fun in. UO just didnt cut it anymore because of it evolved lately.. The omfg i need the best template.. that also effected RP.

I could solo about anything in the game.. the hardest things I could Duo.. So it got boring.
Thats why I left.

Simply merging guilds won't make much difference. If say VTC and -V- merged but retained their existing concepts they'd not really gain anything as the only change would be the fact they are on the same stone - an effect that can just as easily be achieved through an Aliance.

The only way a merger between VTC and -V- would be productive is if they created a new concept like say a Mercenary guild centred around a Tavern, OR if -V- just ceased to exist and all the Militia folk became Barmaids (or vice versa).

Centralisation is the way forward as far as I am concerned, however the merger of similar guilds into one concept and structure is a good step too. But very few GM's would consider that an option as they'd lose authority. And anyway, which guilds did you have in mind?

I think one of the fundamental problems with the roleplay community is one that has always been present - but is more debilitating in the present situation.

The problem is this: that from the second anyone gains power, they are immediately sliding down an unavoidable slope. As time goes on their enthusiasm inevitably drains, however gradually, and they become, however much they try to ward it off with futile willpower, the archetypal bitter GM.

I know, because it's exactly what happened to me.

For the first part of my UO career (an odd career that drains the coffers instead of swelling them) I was wracked with unrestrained enthusiasm, and was desperate to make a name for myself by making stunningly crafted scenarios, etc. I meant well but I was hot-headed and cringingly annoying (hello Borbarad/Raul/Henry Winter) - but I do think I did some interesting things. I was motivated primarily by a desire to please those above me (though this might have been more to do with my young age).

The desire to please and amaze has always been central to the creation of new scenarios/events in UO. The issue arises when fresh-faced, enthusiastic little people are given the position of AGM or worse, GM. It is at this point that the nauseatingly demotivating truth outs itself: the people at the top are equals, and there is now nobody left to impress. What's more, the people surrounding you at the top are in various stages of embitterment due to grievances and the constant pressures of entertaining their respective guilds.

As soon as you are expected to please there is no longer so much fun in doing so. The organization of a spectacular event will not be met with praise and promotion, but often indifference, or even worse, complaints. Even if people are grateful to their GM they may not show it obviously - there is, I think, in all of us a subconscious tendency to take for granted the ones that run the show. This is not a defence for weary GMs, but an attempt at explanation for why so many have lost the enthusiasm to support new ideas - and instead nay-say them.

In my early days I could never understand why the older players talked down every idea - I was very vocal that I would never end up like that. But I did! And I realized finally how easy it is to dismiss the enthusiastic as naive. They're not. They just haven't been corrupted by an unblinkered view of the community and its problems - and they're still filled with an idealistic optimism that is not, as many would say, unrealistic. All too often on the forums, much-touted 'realism' is just cynicism in drag.

And that is, in a roundabout way, what I see as the most fundamental problem: the ones with the power to make change are the ones (through no fault of their own besides accepting power) least inclined to do it.

In my mind, the only way to solve such an issue is for GMs to stop taking the natural course of action when confronted with an enthusiastic guildmember. Do not tell them "Here's the ICQ of Grd's GM, sort it out with them please" or "You seem enthusiastic, would you like to be AGM?". To do either is to set them on an unavoidable slope that leads ultimately to the draining of their energy.

Don't let the aspiring young ones see the top. The moment they realize that at the summit (epitomized by the GM and Command boards) is only a barren slope downwards, is the moment that they will lose their lust for activism.

And for the community to find new life (through centralization, or a less radical re-structuring of guild relations) it is that lust for activism that must be maintained and nurtured in those who have it: not beaten down by those marred by depressing experience.

Agreed. I don't think it's necessarily the loss of authority that's the biggest issue for me. For me, to be honest, it's purely an issue of OOC one-up-manship. Grd and -V- are the most likely merges with Rbl, for example. But Rbl couldn't really merge with Grd (as fellow Yew based guilds) or -V- (as, I dunno, fellow rebel guilds?) or anything of the like because we war them, and I think being able to see exactly who from your opposition is currently logged on takes something out of the sense of danger and in character atmosphere.

I generally don't think you'd merge with another guild without first being confident that the guild absorbing you were well aware of your concept and were happy to let you retain a certain degree of freedom, so Rowland's right in that in most cases very little is going to change.

At the end of the day, you should be regularly communicating with the people on your RP radar anyway - the fact you can guild chat together is about the only one up, and frankly GC grows tiresome anyway.