Heated or passionate debate is one think, but being rude for the sake of being rude is frankly just a little embarrassing. I guess with so many other drama queens on the loose you need to up the ante to get noticed eh?

Really, that was quite tame.

And I think it's somewhat obvious I don't need to put much effort in to being noticed.

Untrue.

You dont know who the players are and how much effort they collectively put into UO over the years.

Please. This debate is about centralizing the community so lets not get too sidetracked on slagging off players for moving on to pastures new.

Shouldn't you direct that at Henry? It was his post that sparked the response quoted above.

And it was also Radek who said [of the same group of players]:

"I couldn't give a rats ass if people who can't be arsed to try and change, or try and make a difference left uo."

What I am saying is that the poster, Radek [who I am not flaming or trolling or indeed have any enmity towards whatsoever] is talking about players of whom he would seem to have little or no knowledge of.

Most of those players are some of the most creative minds to have played UO who tried time and time again ot help/aid the community and made scenarios, ran guilds and generally gave a lot of time to the "community". And who eventually decided, for the time being, "to leave" UO for their own reasons.

[Just clarifying the point I am making - no flaming intended]

But Henry is implying that those individuals left because the rest of us were unreasonable, whereas in truth it's probably the exact opposite. I am curious who these 12 bastions of creativity and ingenuity are though.

Im not sure what Henry is or isnt implying other than players have left. Their reasons are their own.

I am just pointing out that they arent lazy and they did try many times.

Its really not worth debating any further.

I say go for the idea and try and make it work. Get yourselves loads of PR [Ill put stuff on stratics for you] write up events and stories and people will *want* to take part.

It can be done. It is possible. Its a good idea.

Thing you guys should not forget is that is a game for fun and EA is the one we pay for keep us entertained too.

Things were easier with lots of people doing different things and lots of new people starting and trying roleplay.
But these days not many people join, heck most of the people seem to be roleplayers from the american shards looking around here, way out of their time zone even.

What do I mean with some of that?
Why should we work all to bring people in and and keep all of them entertained and happy when it is EA's job to do most of that.

Where are our Seers, IGM's, Game events and further storylines.
Where is EA's support for roleplayers, or even for their own game.

I am game for building things or organising events, but when the game company itself also does not do enough to further improve the game then I will look for more alternatives.


So a centralized community only fights some of the symptoms and when there are almost no players as I still say you lose variaty, what then?

Another question might be, Is EA really he best choice we have? What other choices are there? Will things with UO get better and soon I hope?

Because basically it is easier to just play along now and have fun in game and when it is stale we move on.

Kaelyn's point about variety is very very valid. We have a dozen instances of town guilds, each with their own little quirks but the outsiders that make things so much fun get less and less. There is drow and then there is... uh... orcs, more or less. Thats about it? Given the possibilities that UO gives us for playing different things thats quite pityful. Even the three thousand paladin types that were once more numerous than trees in the forest have gone missing.

Playing now, one has three chances, more or less: rebellion and lots of fighting in Yew, city life with a bit of high fantasy and drow in Trinsic and any number of taverns that one could ever want for.

What do you want, all people in one town? The resulting boredom would be breathtaking. Because all guilds that survive have their unique selling point. Their reason for existance. And people have a valid point saying that most like their characters, their guilds and their history. Up up and together on a heap has never worked.

That said, you can go from Trinsic West gate to whatever corner of Yew is interesting in a blink of an eye. Its not like we are worlds apart. Just... you know it had to come... coordinate. make days when you combine efforts somewhere. Like the moots, like market events, like the Minoc wars were more involved than just those who owned the turf.

Hm...Right...well this thread was wonderful till about hm..the 6th page...Dun have to tell you what goes on after this one tbh.

Before I go any further let me say that I just read this thread. I was unaware of it before. And i have never been a fan of these threads cause I like to do my RP in the game. I RP with anyone I get the chance to really.

UO is a great game and yes it has been suffering. Its almost 10 years old now and back then it was cool. Not many other games that could compete with it. I still say it is the best game ever and gives the players the freedom to do whatever they want. But now too many games have been popping up. I am part of the problem too cause I left UO tempted by Warcraft and one more OOC reason, for the better part of almost two years. But quite frankly, if you like rp like I do, there is no other game like this one right now.

Now that I'm done with this introduction and all of you know where Im coming from, I'll let you know my point of view.

Centralised RP is a good idea okay. But from what I've seen you discuss in here I sorta think it will not be possible unless we forget our characters and their background and start afresh with new ones. Cause lets face it. I hear bickerin bout OOC reasons. I really dont believe in that. And Im certain that any OOC bickering no matter how old the grudge is started from IC.

So our little avatars anyway have developed their own personallity over the long years we have played with them. They have went through many changes and many events in their wee Avatar lives. Things that have formed their attitudes, the people they like and dislike (I dislike many people IC but OOC the ones I know at least there has never been an issue). We have a very big playground to play in. and thats cool cause we can interact whenever we feel like it and we can keep to ourselves whenever we dont. I really dont see the point of restraining us in one small area since anyway, if we wanted to we are just a recall away tbh.

Now I read someone said that people log on, go to say Trinsic West gate and log off if they dont see anyone. Hum well. Thankfully there are many from Trin that log on now and even if there wasnt anyone if you really wanted to I could always recall to vesper or cove an other places. Would I ever go to Stonekeep? No. Cause my ickle Avatar has spent all his life fighting em and never liking em. So really yes. Why would he want to go there unless he was told by the Duke or someone to go guard a delegation or summit. And that is a purely IC reason, not OOC which I heard someone else mention in a rant.

For the same exact reason I would not go to a centralised RP area to rp with people. Cause I could meet people my character would enjoy talking to but he would also meet characters that he could just attack for looking at him. And there would be a lot and I would always end up in fights which is something I dont really fancy. So I would not go for this. And that is purely IC. Im sad to say that I havent spoken to a lot of you OOC but those that I have even for a bit I have the best opinion for.

Anyway, all that Im saying from my point of view is, this has been tried before and failed, and people cant really be forced to do so. Doesnt matter if the GMs want this to happen,(and I remain at that cause there is no person that can be a Leader...and lead me to change the things I enjoy doing and how and when I do them...)if the members of a guild dont like what is being suggested they will just not do it and frankly just wont log on.Having the opposite effect of what is trying to be done.

So you might wonder what is this guy saying. Tellin us to not do nothing? No. On the contrary. I am really happy to see all this interest and in no way want to disencourage anything. We can work on scenarios, behind the scenes things. Yes, then people who have the time,the knowledge,the will and the ability would be most welcome to lead and make our little avatars lives more interesting as has been done so succesfully in the past and my thanks to all of them tbh. To do that we dont have to force ourselves to rp mainly in one area. Cause thats not rp like anyway. Forcing a drow, an elf, a Kaldorian coexist in an area with factions or people he just doesnt like? Cant see the rp factor there. Point is if we want to save our community and our fun in the bottom line, all of us have to get more interested. The GMs could work on big scenarios (which sadly are somewhat limited to wars and alliances but thats what is goin on in rl too) and the rest of us could each, using his or her imagination, start little things that can last from 10 minutes to days tbh. Whoever wants to interact with other guilds his guild is warred to can interact with them by building friendships with some of its members. And you do get the chance to do that. I know I did that a lot when I was a Kaldorian. And these friendships still last after all the years. No matter what the guilds do tbh.

Anyway, think I said enough for my first ever post on a forum like this *takes polite bows an doesnt complain about all the vegetables thrown at him*

Just a few closing points.

Dont blame the people that left or dont blame the people here for making in one way or another those leave. We all change. Heck I was 19 when I started playing and Im 28 now. My interests have changed lots, my priorities have changed too over the years. But I keep on coming back cause I like RP and Im glad to say that I have some really good friends here even though I have never met them in rl.

Last but not least. Hed. Tbh. If you dont like the Rose just dont come. If you mind "blues" coming, dont ever come again. Those blues that visit the rose have done some genuine attempts to rp with the rest of us using their own way ofcourse. Okay so they might be wearin artis and do smileys sometimes. Its up to you to ignore that and look at the essence of what they are doing. Ive been on some hunts with them and some of us rpers. The blend of people playing against the game environment and of us rpers was quite frankly pretty amazin. They took us in and didnt mock our rp ways and we accepted em too and did not mock their arties and smileys. And we both enjoyed ourselves while sticking to our own gameplay. If you want to have a closed rp community go ahead. Make a tavern private and friend only rpers. Dont say bad things about the Rose cause you just dont like it eh bud? Really not polite to do so. Some people have put a lot of effort into it and have offered all of us some wonderful times k?

Anyway

*bows again and eats a tomato*

Thanks for your time and patience whoever reads this.

Instead of discussing one centralized community people could start with merging the fragmented guild landscape together. There's plenty guilds that are just consisting of 1-15 chars and are mere carcasses of what they once were. If you merged those 20 odd guilds together into 3-4 larger ones you'd have a much healthier community already.

Also for a centralized community you'd need people willing to keep it running. All CoY leaders will be able to tell you what a !!!!! it was to keep the community going. The moment you logged on you had 6 members whining at you because member x of guild y did this and that. That's whats the outcome if you put guilds with totally different concepts into a small area as lets say Yew. Certainly its enjoyable even with all the chaos but i'm willing to bet that even if you managed to get all people into one place, you'll utterly fail to find people that have the courage and time to keep it all organized.

Think Timothy got it spot on.. merging guilds. Those that can be merged should..