How about this for a fix for the economy and for the currently uselessness of crafters:

Why not make crafters specialists in their respective fields.

1. Often I see games which require you to pick a specialization, this is bad for UO as many crafters are super crafters having multiple skills on one character. A possible fix for this would be:
a. do not require you to pick
b. specialization comes from use not from predetermining
c. make use requirement high enough that crafters would have to be used an extremely outrageous amount to specialize in more than
one field.
2. Everyone has a crafter of some sort and usually maxed out so whats the point of putting new recipes in the game it doesnt help the economy cause everyone can just make the new items for themselves.
a. make specialization recipes
b. make recipes for specialists and for masters of that specialty
3. How can you become a specialist?
a. Use, use and more use
4. What kinda specialists can there be?
a. obvious all crafting skills can be specialized in.
5. I wanna be a specialist how can I do it?
a. make XX number of items using specific crafting menus:
*this is the trickly part: sorta like collecting quest items or bod deeds either it must be make XX number of items from crafting menu or make XX number of each item from crafting menu. turning in XX number of bods can give bonuses to total number.
6. but I wanna have the title of "Master XXXXX Maker"
a. then you must create XXX number of XXXXX.
This whole approach makes resource collecting valuable again, it makes crafters valuable again, it helps the economy, it makes bod deeds valuable again and it introduces a motivation to new and old players alike to try something new.


I'll give you a for instance of how I see this working:

I like my smith who I havent played in forever cause really whats the point? I decide to make him a specialist cause I really like him. He has to make 100 of every item on the plate menu to become "Garth Plate Specialist", well that opens up a couple new plate recipes to me or the ability to manufacture plate armor using XX% less resources. Now I want to go further with him so I make 100 of every item on the armor menu to become "Garth Armor Specialist" I get all recipes for armor plus a couple more for Armor Specialist. Now I'm bored again and want to take it further, plate is doing pretty good so I now have to make 10,000 of each plate mail piece to gain the title "Garth Master of Plate" this introduces me to uber plate recipes, uber mods, pieces that sell for millions, the ability to craft any plate piece with 0% fail chance and an extremely low resources needed.

So what do you guys think? Oh and this can be done with any crafting skill!

Not a bad idea, but being a casual gamer I'm a bit sceptical about the usage-dependance of it...

well thats really the point, this "system" isnt designed to let the casual gamer jump in and be a master of it, it takes work and dedication to it, it gives people something new to do but the reward is worth the effort. Everyone cant just play for an hour a day for one week and be the "uber elite". Thats part of the problem now people are playing this game for a month and soloing Darkfathers whereas others have played for years and still cant tame a ww!

I like some of your ideas. You should polish it up and represent it to jeremy. Maybe even do a youtube spot. Youtube is a platform that other gamers use to make their point on, perhaps the same can be done with UO on youtube.

Merth I think you idea has some good points, I would like to see it go a few steps deeper with making it a time investment as well. This would mean the play would have to build the thousands of armor as well as maybe spend a few months of doing bods on a daily basis or something to that respect. I say this becuase this would do more in eliminating the averageg power user in mass creating the armor and being Master of xxxxx. This kind of goes along with the idea it took months of game play to become a GM crafter instead of hours. That was when you had crafting players selling there wares around the Blacksmith shops and you had Minors coming down from the hills selling those players ingots. This really should be sent into the Feedback for Jeremy to pass along.

Yeah but most people don't have that kind of time to invest in a game. I personally don't have that kind of time to invest in a game. I have been with UO since 1999 but yet I don't spend hours on it a day. And I can see how this would prevent new gamer from joining UO. Although I do believe that vet gamers should have some cool perks

well i guess the question is should someone who invests a few hours a week be able to have the same "skills" and "stuphs" that someone who invests hours a day have? My first instinct is No! Am I trying to solve EA's problem of not being able to attract new players? Also a No! Am I trying to think of something I would like as a veteran player? Yes. Am I trying to think of something to help the economy? Yes. Am I trying to think of something to help my favorite characters (crafters) be useful again? Yes. It all boils down to perspective:

1. new and old players (even casual ones) like having to work towards something.
2. the economy suxs! enough said!
3. miners, lumberjacks, and crafters have been made virtually worthless due to the availability of these skills on every acct.
for instance the only time i play my smith is when i get bored fighting and knock out a few bods to try to get an uber one. the only time i play my carpenter is to make a couple boxes to be a GM Sorter!
I never play my jacker as i have about 20k or more of each wood type stockpiled and dont need any of the rewards offered for turn ins.
4. this "system" helps the economy, the near useless skills, the bod system, and the lagging interest especially by veterans who basically are working nowadays on becoming GM decorators and sorters!

Another twist on this could be bonus points for doing repairs! would have to be a successful repair not just repairing an undamaged item over and over

I think it's a good idea Merth...and from what i read it wouldn't actually leave out the "casual" players..they could still reach the "specialist" level..it would just take much longer since they were'nt investing as much time..same as training skills up to 120 now...and it would give us reasons to play our crafters...like Merth..I never log mine on anymore except to do a few quick repairs or something

Dude, but this IS the reason UO is dieing... and most ppl don't have that kinda time to waste... So, they don't... I stopped playing UO because it needs sooo much time dedicated to it...

UO IS the only game in the market where I can buy an Advanced chr right outa the box, with a newbie account... Goto any number of sites and purchase all the Equipment I will ever need, as nothing wears out and needs replacing, I'll have this stuff until I close the account... I can even buy a pre-placed house, NP... not that I realy need it... and I can even share all my other accounts stuff with them before closing those accounts... Making this Newbie chr Riche and nearly God like, with in the 1st 24 hours.... and it cost US$ wise alot less than my last 120mo fees too... talk about instant gratification, no need to waste 10years...

Now back to your idea, which sounds so simmumer to MrTs, its not even funny...

So Merth, How is this idea suppost to stimulate the Economy? By allowing all the players who script for hours upon hours, dedicating their chrs to crafts, So they can sell what? The same old same old...

Now if you had proposed something along these lines, I might have a more possitive responce:

-Limit trade skills to two per chr... and these points do not count towards the point cap...
-Seperate the Combat skills from the Trade skills and Resourse skills... so that there are 600pts total for Combat skills... and 200pts for Trade/Resource skills... They are two seperate caps...

These will only hinder someone trying to "Mule" all crafts to one chr... Without changing our existing system too much...

I myself have always tried to put only complimenting skills on my crafters, but I have found there is not enough points left over to also let that crafter be compitent in Combat skills also... as they are realy two differant templetes...

Now back to your proficiency idea:

-I'm all for "Specializasions", but just adding more Lotteries is not a good idea... That only forces ppl to script more(or not play in the 1st place)... I for one don't want to "Bot" my way through the game... Doing the Same old same old, over and over, trying to get that last reciepy...

A Radical, rethink must happen for ALL Crafting/Items/Drops...

-I'm all for a system where I become an Apprentice Smith and all I can make is repair deeds... But wait, I am also penalized with the highest chance at reducing durability... So NO one wants my services... or repair deeds...

We need to rethink the durability system here and reduce it by 1 point no matter who repairs it(aprentice or elder)... and we should go back to the old system where durability had a direct relatioship to Damage dealt and Damage absorbed...

They removed that part in favor of Ultra rare arties... But now they have loosened the Doom restictions, we can allow crafter to make artie quality(but not exactly the same) items...

Durability on all items can be used as a Power meter for deffence/offence, but with unlimited PoF usage, its pointless... The Economy stagnates because no player, ever re-equipes any of their gear... theres NO need too...

So I propose, that PoFs be limited to one use per items lifetime, and that this one use simply puts 255 durability onto your item... Now this IS a Bonus to your Power Offence/Deffence (255%), call it a damage bonus to baseline damage delt/absorbed... as it wears you will naturaly want to maintain it at it best and chose a point in which to replace it...

and I do feel the formula that wears things out, should be balanced so that items have a useful lifetime and don't wear out too fast... The whole key is they WILL need replacing eventualy some how...

and if they don't have the proficiantcies to make it themselves, they will need to buy it, somehow... stimulating the economy... or draining gold...

I feel its great idea to have a Smith/apprectice... doing repairs only...

-then they want to learn "Bladed weapons" to ad to the list of items to make... then Polearms, Maces, etc...

-once you got that proficiancy, now you need all the differant items you can make... dagger, longsword, braudsword etc...

and Apprentice can't make them all, so must buy next proficiancy...

So How does all this stimulate the Economy?

It realy does not... If NO piece of equipement needs replacing, ever...

Having higher and higher things only has a flash effect... once everyone has gotten to the next level, the economy again stagnates...

UOGuy we've had similiar debates in the past and I'm not sure if my ideas werent clear enough or if you didnt read them thoroughly but I'll try to expound on some of the things youve said:
1. first off "simmumer"(not sure what that means) to MrT's(not sure who that is)...Ive never heard anything close to this idea before.
2. I'm talkiing about a idea that is possible to implement (any idea to "revamp" the whole system will never work or happen)
3. there is no "lottery" involved, those who meet certain "goals" receive the rewards from those goals
4. all this "system" does is create new challenges for existing players and sets goals for new players
5. the way it helps the economy is it requires massive amounts of resources to get to the uber Master title and abilities, taking stockpiled resources out of the game, creating the need once again for gatherers, and spreading existing gold from stockpiled accts to those wishing to spend the time gathering materials.
6. Crafter type chars are once again visited for their wares and abilities and my "vision" would require uber recipes have timers on them with either time to make being dependant on being logged in or waiting between remakes.
7. Due to the amount of time it takes to reach such specializations there will be many different accts holding the titles and thus having a marketable service once again.
8. Maybe a solution to the "anyone can do it" would be as you reach a certain "tier" in your specialty you lose XX number of skill points from other skills thus making someone a "Master of XX" would only have XXX of skill points available. Thereby limiting what they can do, after all does a Master Blacksmith really spend time learning magic? or practicing it for instance?

In essence what I'm proposing is adding something to the game in a positive manner which doesnt require a "revamp" of current system, gives veterans and newbs (especially crafter types) something new to do, wouldnt require anything more than time which many UO players dont mind (obviously) giving, makes useless boring skills marketable again, and yes their wares could be bought and sold for "instant gratification" but what cant these days. Scriptors are gonna script regardless and there doesnt seem to be anything around to stop it. As I said above Im not trying to rework this game or solve EA's problems, It's just an idea that I thought would work within current system and thought I'd share it to hear ideas on it, not regoing down the road of what it would take to solve EA's problems or remake the whole game.

OK, Merth... I just reread your 1st post and this one, and I've come to one conclussion... I can't spell/type worth a darn, so please forgive me...

1- I ment Similar... hehe....
2- as far as changing the software, I think anything is possible... So what exactly are you proposing be added/changed/what? Just saying its "possible" doesn't tell me anything...
3- Please be more specific, what "Goals" are you talking about? Your 1st post sounds like you want me to work more than 2hrs a day, just to have basic Smithing skills... The more hours I work, the more Smithing Skilled I get....
4- and how is it going to do that? Do I work more hours Questing for Uber reciepies? Do I search out another crafter for the reciepies? or are you introducing specilization reciepies? How do I get those? Work more hours? no thanks, Dude...
5- OK, if you say so... still haven't said How you are going to accomplish that.... If the idea is to burn up stockpiles, well just turn back ON the museum donations for awhile to do that... or stay true with UO crafting and burning up materials upon failures, If its an Uber item I would expect failures and loosing materials... I just don't want to spend 40hrs working at it... Thats what I call a "UO Lottery", when I have to work 40 hr to do it, to succeed...
6- Thats not a "for sure" thing, but only if crafted items were similar to other Uber items... in other words if there are other Uber drops more Uber than crafted, Why would anyone want less.... Crafted items would still be worthless, no matter how much time/materials are in its making....
7- Mmm, I don't think so...
8- this coment doesn't make any sence to me, sorry...

Jezz, I don't know who is higher, you or me...

Revamp, Yes... as far as I can see, they can do anything they want, its a piece of software... as long as they make a profit and own the franchise... They will continue...

Problem is they shot themselves in the foot too many times, the numbers went down instead of up... Best layed plans I guess, backfired...